Over the past few weeks I’ve been with a number of people who have told me that they were taught by members of “the clergy” that they had no right to listen to God for themselves. Some said that God no longer speaks to the believer, since we now have the Scriptures. Others were told that God gave pastors to the church because they are trained to attend to our spiritual needs in the same way doctors care for our physical needs. Others have even taught that God only passes his will down through pastors and elders.
I’ve even heard people teach that elders and pastors will know your heart better than you know it, and even when you disagree with them, you should do what they say.
Let me say this as clearly as I can: Any man or woman who tells you they know God’s will for you better than you do yourself, proves by doing so that they are a false teacher. Flee from him or her!
At the heart of the New Covenant lies this reality: All of us get to know him and listen to him. He didn’t invite us to follow his book, follow his rules, or follow one of his designated representatives. He invited us to, “Come, follow me.” Anyone who gets in the way of that relationship hasn’t a clue who Jesus is or how he works in the world.
Yes, there are lots of examples of crazy people who claim God told them to do the most destructive and bizzare things. But some of those have even been members of the clergy. But even if others fraudulently and maliciously claim that God told them to do what he has clearly not told them to do, does not negate his desire to speak to you and lead you by his Spirit.
I was with a man last month in New Zealand who listens to God as well as any man I know. He has pastored churches and traveled the world for decades encouraging others to live deeply in Jesus. He told me, “I have never believed, even for a moment, that I can hear God for someone else more clearly than they can hear themselves.” He never presumed to tell someone what God wanted them to do.
That’s the kind of person I recognize as a true elder among the body of Christ. They don’t hear God for you; they help you learn how to listen to for yourself because they wouldn’t think of robbing you of the most precious gift God has to give–an intimate friendship with him!
All I can say is Halleluah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Howard
Wayne, I too had been taught that John 1 tied with Hebrews 1 the part about God in the past spoke to our forefathers through prophets but in these last days He has spoken to us through His Son….meaning that once Jesus had spoken in the Gospels….(that was the end of Him speaking all He needed to say to us). Their thought process was that our Heart is evil to the core, so anything coming from the inside of us…was obviously the “FLESH” and not the Lord speaking to us in our own heart. Let’s not be confused that the Father, Son & Spirit are dwelling inside….that’s too hard to explain (sorry for the sarcasm). So we had to totally rely on the written word from the Bible…and then we started the debate that “only those who have been trained” in the Biblical literature could “Accurately divide the Word of Truth”. The whole Performance thing climbed into…you went to bible school, while I went to Seminary, and I have a Doctorate, and you only have a M. Div. Wow, what “one up” on one another that turns into! I smell LOVE all over that! I now see that the Gospel Jesus declared was that the Father in Heaven wanted to have a personal relationship with all His children….something about a stone around a neck might go in here real nice…. HA! Keep slinging freedom and sharing that the Father Speaks to His children and that we all have the capacity to hear His voice. May you be blessed as you continue to Gaze into His eyes of Love!
All I can say is Halleluah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Howard
Wayne, I too had been taught that John 1 tied with Hebrews 1 the part about God in the past spoke to our forefathers through prophets but in these last days He has spoken to us through His Son….meaning that once Jesus had spoken in the Gospels….(that was the end of Him speaking all He needed to say to us). Their thought process was that our Heart is evil to the core, so anything coming from the inside of us…was obviously the “FLESH” and not the Lord speaking to us in our own heart. Let’s not be confused that the Father, Son & Spirit are dwelling inside….that’s too hard to explain (sorry for the sarcasm). So we had to totally rely on the written word from the Bible…and then we started the debate that “only those who have been trained” in the Biblical literature could “Accurately divide the Word of Truth”. The whole Performance thing climbed into…you went to bible school, while I went to Seminary, and I have a Doctorate, and you only have a M. Div. Wow, what “one up” on one another that turns into! I smell LOVE all over that! I now see that the Gospel Jesus declared was that the Father in Heaven wanted to have a personal relationship with all His children….something about a stone around a neck might go in here real nice…. HA! Keep slinging freedom and sharing that the Father Speaks to His children and that we all have the capacity to hear His voice. May you be blessed as you continue to Gaze into His eyes of Love!
It truly is a lie that we need someone between our Big Brother Jesus and ourselves, to be becoming in Him! It is also a lie that we need to good enough to earn His Love which He gives so freely. His desire is to live in us, through us and when needed for us in an unfolding relationship. Rules are a substitute for relationship and can never transform.
Jim Henman
It truly is a lie that we need someone between our Big Brother Jesus and ourselves, to be becoming in Him! It is also a lie that we need to good enough to earn His Love which He gives so freely. His desire is to live in us, through us and when needed for us in an unfolding relationship. Rules are a substitute for relationship and can never transform.
Jim Henman
Rules and control are always the weapons used by people in leadership who are undone by the mystery that is God. Our Lord who designed us for relationship with Him granted us righteousness through the cross that is different from “right – ness” sought by insecure, wounded not broken, people. Jesus called us to love even those who attempt to hinder Him in our lives but love does not enable them to prosper in their plans. Sometimes we choose to walk away but at other times we remain to encourage and influence. I have heard God say, “walk away, for now” and I have heard Him say, “remain.”
Rules and control are always the weapons used by people in leadership who are undone by the mystery that is God. Our Lord who designed us for relationship with Him granted us righteousness through the cross that is different from “right – ness” sought by insecure, wounded not broken, people. Jesus called us to love even those who attempt to hinder Him in our lives but love does not enable them to prosper in their plans. Sometimes we choose to walk away but at other times we remain to encourage and influence. I have heard God say, “walk away, for now” and I have heard Him say, “remain.”
Thank you Wayne. Jesus said he would send the holy spirit to teach us. Not a man. Didn’t even mention a book. I scratch my head and wonder why people can see so much “law” in scripture , but miss this when it’s right there in front of us.
Wayne — Right on and well said.
Jesus said, “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.”
“I’ve even heard people teach that elders and pastors will know your heart better than you know it, and even when you disagree with them, you should do what they say.” …..”Don’t Buy the Lie!”
Hi! I really needed this today! I didn’t sleep a wink last night because I was restless over this very issue. When I shared my fears with my husband early this morning, I used very similar words to the line I just quoted.
I was practically born in church, so this teaching has been ingrained in me. For the most part, it was not taught to me directly, but I still “caught on.” Then there was a very bad experience I had with being taught this directly, and with being harshly punished and held “accountable” to a stranger for a long time….all because I broke a rule one time. No one wanted to listen to me about why I broke it, or how my inspiration for doing so came from Jesus’ life, or what motivated me. And there was no point in even discussing the fact that the rule had been placed on what should have been my personal life, because to question the rules themselves was absolute rebellion! The funny part about having such a fear of not having the “leader’s” approval, is that I have to think hard to even recall a time that I had a meaningful (freely-vulnerable-it’s-okay-to-speak-your-mind) conversation about my life with someone with a spiritual leadership title….and then after I’ve thought hard, I draw a blank. I allowed myself to be controlled by the opinions of people who were on the fringes of my life.
Due to circumstances in my life, I am having to discuss my personal life with a pastor of an institutional church. I wouldn’t call that “on the fringes” anymore….this is an opportunity to come face to face with my fear. He seems really nice and very non-controlling so far, but there is still the possibility that I might have to disagree with him and live with his disapproval. There is also the possibility that that won’t even happen, but my mind resorts to old thinking patterns of fear. And even if my worst fear happens, why am I even so afraid of that? If he disapproves of me, judges my heart, and holds me to a legalistic standard, and I have to live with that….can’t I just be happy that I am truly alive in Christ?! What if my freedom in Christ costs me the approval of entire groups of believers? Wouldn’t God continue to sustain me, provide me with support and encouragement when I need it, and give me the grace to bless and love anyone who accuses my heart? What am I so afraid of?
Despite the struggles and occasional restlessness, I am enjoying growing in freedom and in love. It feels good to find myself free and willing to work with this pastor, without my past bitterness against institutions getting in the way. Through this circumstance, I see ways I’ve grown in love, forgiveness, acceptance, and honor toward others, and ways I still need to grow in freedom from the fear of man. In the not-so-distant past, this circumstance would have brought out my issues with needing to “perform” well and be “right” and “good.” But instead, I am finding joy, peace, and comfort in God in the very middle of a messy process in my life. The joy is in the discovery and learning, and letting go of the need to do it perfectly. The comfort comes from receiving the honor and value God places on my heart, the wisdom he’s given me, and even my choices. The peace comes from the security of the Solid Rock of our foundation, no matter what happens in this life, and in living in light of our Eternal Reward. (My greatest reward will be to be close to Jesus and to look into his eyes and see his love for me, and to be able to look at him and let him see my love looking back at him…..I’m sure you all feel the same way.)
I just realized Jay said something about gazing into God’s eyes of love, and then I did too without even reading that. I think God is speaking to us right now……… (about focusing our gaze on Him and away from others, about receiving his love, and about living to love him through our choices, even if our obedience to Him costs us some disapproval from others……..or about something else entirely different, since only you know what he is saying to you! haha)
Thank you Wayne. Jesus said he would send the holy spirit to teach us. Not a man. Didn’t even mention a book. I scratch my head and wonder why people can see so much “law” in scripture , but miss this when it’s right there in front of us.
Wayne — Right on and well said.
Jesus said, “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.”
“I’ve even heard people teach that elders and pastors will know your heart better than you know it, and even when you disagree with them, you should do what they say.” …..”Don’t Buy the Lie!”
Hi! I really needed this today! I didn’t sleep a wink last night because I was restless over this very issue. When I shared my fears with my husband early this morning, I used very similar words to the line I just quoted.
I was practically born in church, so this teaching has been ingrained in me. For the most part, it was not taught to me directly, but I still “caught on.” Then there was a very bad experience I had with being taught this directly, and with being harshly punished and held “accountable” to a stranger for a long time….all because I broke a rule one time. No one wanted to listen to me about why I broke it, or how my inspiration for doing so came from Jesus’ life, or what motivated me. And there was no point in even discussing the fact that the rule had been placed on what should have been my personal life, because to question the rules themselves was absolute rebellion! The funny part about having such a fear of not having the “leader’s” approval, is that I have to think hard to even recall a time that I had a meaningful (freely-vulnerable-it’s-okay-to-speak-your-mind) conversation about my life with someone with a spiritual leadership title….and then after I’ve thought hard, I draw a blank. I allowed myself to be controlled by the opinions of people who were on the fringes of my life.
Due to circumstances in my life, I am having to discuss my personal life with a pastor of an institutional church. I wouldn’t call that “on the fringes” anymore….this is an opportunity to come face to face with my fear. He seems really nice and very non-controlling so far, but there is still the possibility that I might have to disagree with him and live with his disapproval. There is also the possibility that that won’t even happen, but my mind resorts to old thinking patterns of fear. And even if my worst fear happens, why am I even so afraid of that? If he disapproves of me, judges my heart, and holds me to a legalistic standard, and I have to live with that….can’t I just be happy that I am truly alive in Christ?! What if my freedom in Christ costs me the approval of entire groups of believers? Wouldn’t God continue to sustain me, provide me with support and encouragement when I need it, and give me the grace to bless and love anyone who accuses my heart? What am I so afraid of?
Despite the struggles and occasional restlessness, I am enjoying growing in freedom and in love. It feels good to find myself free and willing to work with this pastor, without my past bitterness against institutions getting in the way. Through this circumstance, I see ways I’ve grown in love, forgiveness, acceptance, and honor toward others, and ways I still need to grow in freedom from the fear of man. In the not-so-distant past, this circumstance would have brought out my issues with needing to “perform” well and be “right” and “good.” But instead, I am finding joy, peace, and comfort in God in the very middle of a messy process in my life. The joy is in the discovery and learning, and letting go of the need to do it perfectly. The comfort comes from receiving the honor and value God places on my heart, the wisdom he’s given me, and even my choices. The peace comes from the security of the Solid Rock of our foundation, no matter what happens in this life, and in living in light of our Eternal Reward. (My greatest reward will be to be close to Jesus and to look into his eyes and see his love for me, and to be able to look at him and let him see my love looking back at him…..I’m sure you all feel the same way.)
I just realized Jay said something about gazing into God’s eyes of love, and then I did too without even reading that. I think God is speaking to us right now……… (about focusing our gaze on Him and away from others, about receiving his love, and about living to love him through our choices, even if our obedience to Him costs us some disapproval from others……..or about something else entirely different, since only you know what he is saying to you! haha)
Wayne that last paragraph about the gentleman in New Zealand was key for me. When you and I first met years ago it was kind of uncomfortable for me when you DIDN’T tell me how to think, what to believe, what God was saying to me. I didn’t understand it. I was used to people in “authority” telling me what to do. But since it has helped me immensely in my ability to grow…So…Thank you, Bro! Gosh freedom is great!
Wayne that last paragraph about the gentleman in New Zealand was key for me. When you and I first met years ago it was kind of uncomfortable for me when you DIDN’T tell me how to think, what to believe, what God was saying to me. I didn’t understand it. I was used to people in “authority” telling me what to do. But since it has helped me immensely in my ability to grow…So…Thank you, Bro! Gosh freedom is great!
Wayne, I have rarely heard you so pointed.
Well said.
Wayne, I have rarely heard you so pointed.
Well said.
There are actual religious demons that try to make you feel guilty about not going to church, even after one has left and moved on to a relationship with Christ. I’ve struggled with them myself, and I say from experience, that they can be particularly nasty in all their condemnation that they try to make you accept as your own. The only thing that seems to help me, is to cast them out in the name of Jesus Christ.
Blessings and thanks for putting the truth out there,
C. Dunamis
From what I’ve read of how you’ve been taught, it almost sounds similar to what a Catholic woman once told me. She said I don’t read the bible for myself; if I want to know anything my priest will tell me. She refused to read the bible for herself. As for us Christians it is imperitive to have a Pastor and to take some bible lessons to help us rightly understand what God’s word is saying to us. However, I have noticed that the Holy Spirit has attempted many times to help me make choices. Many times I’ve doubted those thoughts and regret it. Where I have failed Him is not recording those inspirations and sharing them with another brother and have us pray about these inspired thoughts to get more clarity. However the promptings of the Holy Spirit have helped me many times to open my mouth with the right words to give the gospel message. If I had not studied under any teachers I hardly think I could refute any deceiving thoughts coming from myself or from someone else who may be teaching a heresy. Look at the book The Shack. I was totally sucked in by the story. But I didn’t get any revelation from the Holy Spirit; He guided me to a site online without me knowing it. He was showing me this book was full of heresies. The pastor that disclosed the heresies interviewed the author himself. This Pastor rightly divided the truth and found the deceptions craftily hidden. We must not fool ourselves into thinking we don’t need God’s Word when we display His character in our lives. Test the spirits, whether they be of God. Satan is craftily dividing and conquering congregations by destroying relationships. We do need to mix fundamentalism with Love. Love is of God. God is Love. Amen?
The letter killeth, but the Spirit gives life.
There are actual religious demons that try to make you feel guilty about not going to church, even after one has left and moved on to a relationship with Christ. I’ve struggled with them myself, and I say from experience, that they can be particularly nasty in all their condemnation that they try to make you accept as your own. The only thing that seems to help me, is to cast them out in the name of Jesus Christ.
Blessings and thanks for putting the truth out there,
C. Dunamis
From what I’ve read of how you’ve been taught, it almost sounds similar to what a Catholic woman once told me. She said I don’t read the bible for myself; if I want to know anything my priest will tell me. She refused to read the bible for herself. As for us Christians it is imperitive to have a Pastor and to take some bible lessons to help us rightly understand what God’s word is saying to us. However, I have noticed that the Holy Spirit has attempted many times to help me make choices. Many times I’ve doubted those thoughts and regret it. Where I have failed Him is not recording those inspirations and sharing them with another brother and have us pray about these inspired thoughts to get more clarity. However the promptings of the Holy Spirit have helped me many times to open my mouth with the right words to give the gospel message. If I had not studied under any teachers I hardly think I could refute any deceiving thoughts coming from myself or from someone else who may be teaching a heresy. Look at the book The Shack. I was totally sucked in by the story. But I didn’t get any revelation from the Holy Spirit; He guided me to a site online without me knowing it. He was showing me this book was full of heresies. The pastor that disclosed the heresies interviewed the author himself. This Pastor rightly divided the truth and found the deceptions craftily hidden. We must not fool ourselves into thinking we don’t need God’s Word when we display His character in our lives. Test the spirits, whether they be of God. Satan is craftily dividing and conquering congregations by destroying relationships. We do need to mix fundamentalism with Love. Love is of God. God is Love. Amen?
The letter killeth, but the Spirit gives life.
I am curious, larry about the Shack, the book, i did not see any heresis, it really helped me deal with own sisters death that died at eighteen years of age, while I was fourteen years of age at the time of her death. I know it was a ficticous story and unusal using a woman playing God. Yet there is no male, female, jew nor greek, we are one in the Spirit. I look at the healing effect that it had on me. Getting into semantics, proper order and picking on details, is what the leaders in Jesus’s day did to Jesus and those that were hurting in that day, the worst sort of sinners and prostitutes that Jesus hung around and was accused of, were healed by love, and love in the shack was shown. Wow, to me man is still the same, all Holier than thou lacking love that they so desperately need.
Anyway I was helped with the book called the shack, thank you all very much, and love you all very much.
Howard
I am curious, larry about the Shack, the book, i did not see any heresis, it really helped me deal with own sisters death that died at eighteen years of age, while I was fourteen years of age at the time of her death. I know it was a ficticous story and unusal using a woman playing God. Yet there is no male, female, jew nor greek, we are one in the Spirit. I look at the healing effect that it had on me. Getting into semantics, proper order and picking on details, is what the leaders in Jesus’s day did to Jesus and those that were hurting in that day, the worst sort of sinners and prostitutes that Jesus hung around and was accused of, were healed by love, and love in the shack was shown. Wow, to me man is still the same, all Holier than thou lacking love that they so desperately need.
Anyway I was helped with the book called the shack, thank you all very much, and love you all very much.
Howard
Hi Larry, I’m not sure if you were talking to me or to Wayne. I just wanted to respond to say thank you for reminding us of these things because yes, it is so important to remain teachable, to love teachers in your life, to seek a biblical foundation, and to test the spirits. What you said about seeking greater clarity with the help of another believer is very good advice, too. Thank you. Personally, I have made many mistakes in seeking to hear God’s voice. Sometimes I have been really wrong, all because I didn’t recognize the importance of making sure that what I thought I was hearing was in line with what the bible says. Sometimes the problem was that I didn’t know how to go about doing this. There have also been plenty of times that I “heard” God (was prompted by the Holy Spirit in one way or another), and it was in line with the bible, and the fruit of that was good in my life. It’s a growth process, just like everything else, and none of us are going to do it perfectly without some practice. For me, the way I often “hear” God’s voice is through something that I come across during my day that the Holy Spirit “highlights” for me with a stirring in my spirit. Other times it’s different, like the “still, small voice” in my heart. Or finding that I’ve been guided – perhaps without even knowing it – to something that I need, similar to what you described about the website that you found helpful. Other times it’s a “word picture” that I am able to internally visualize – a picture is worth a thousand words, after all – such as the one I shared above about gazing into God’s eyes. I believe God can speak through anything he wants; Jesus used the everyday things around him when he spoke/taught, and Romans 1 says that God can be understood through creation itself. The important part, like you said, is whether it is in line with the bible, and if the fruit of it is good or bad. As an example, gazing into the eyes of Jesus is a “word picture” that helps me receive God’s love and overcome the fear of man (the fruit of it is good), and it brings to mind the verse that says, “Fix your eyes on the author and finisher of your faith,” and other biblical concepts (too much to include here) about obedience, Jesus being the head of the church, the fear of God vs. the fear of man, the sufferings Jesus endured among men to be obedient to his Father, and the love of God. Again, thank you for reminding us of the importance of truth. Amen to God being Love! Blessings to you.
By the way, I loved The Shack too, Howard. However, I do think there were some things in it that need to be handled gently when it comes to individuals. Some people are able to get past some things about that book that other people see as not being biblical. Personally, I really enjoyed the book, and yet I hold a couple of concepts at arm’s length, receiving only what is good for me. Some people think more literally than others, and have a hard time understanding why it would be okay for God to be represented by a woman, for example, when he is referred to in the bible as a male. For me, I was moved by learning (from a video with the author speaking from his life) why he chose a specific type of woman to represent the Father, and it blessed me. But for someone such as Larry, maybe he was not able to get past the literal interpretation, and it was only a stumbling block to him. I saw a brief video of a pastor preaching about the heresy of The Shack, and it did not bless me, because it seemed judgmental, critical, and skipping the intention of the author. But God is able to use anything for good. Maybe God really did want Larry to stay away from that book because it did not serve to encourage his faith or to keep his thoughts in line with scripture. But maybe you and I could enjoy the book because it was able to encourage us and expound on what we read in the bible about God in a way that didn’t twist scripture in our minds. “If I…can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge…but have not love, I am nothing.” If our freedom is greater than that of another, we have to use it to love. We have to allow room for the convictions and needs of others to be different than our own, and to want what is in the best interest of another. God bless!
Larry, I’m curious what “heresies” you found in THE SHACK, and don’t you think that word is a bit strong just because you might have disagreed with something we wrote? I’ve read many lists supposedly unmasking the heresies behind THE SHACK, and I haven’t read a list yet that wasn’t filled with distortion, lies, and innuendo. The supposed heresies they unmasked weren’t even in the book to start with. I worked on the book for sixteen months before it was released, so I’ve got a very clear sense of what’s behind the book and how biblical the theologies were that we put in it.
Many people didn’t like this book because the picture of God there was more loving and compassionate and friendly than they were and couldn’t bear the notion that God is not an angry bully in the universe manipulating people to his own ends. Instead they found a God whose love actually heals and sets right what sin has damaged in our lives.
But whether you like the book or not, throwing around accusations of heresy seems a bit over the top!
Just to be clear….Wayne, I respect your work and appreciate the gift you offered the world through The Shack. Many people have been blessed and experienced breakthroughs in their lives in their understanding of God because of that book….there’s no disputing that. In what I said, I wasn’t trying to imply that I actually believe that heresy exists in that book. I don’t support the idea of anyone picking a book apart and then taking their criticism to a public arena to do further damage. It’s enough to preach in a way that builds people up in biblical-based truth that serves as a foundation when we go about making our own personal choices, and to encourage others to use discernment. I was only attempting to highlight the importance of accepting the weaknesses of others – such as having difficulty getting past a literal interpretation into a deeper, more meaningful, metaphorical interpretation – accepting each other in our quirks and weaknesses, wanting what is best for one another, and using our freedom to love (rather than try to force others into the same freedom). No matter how much I love The Shack and think everyone else should love it too, what’s most important is that every believer is only built up in their faith and does not stumble over anything – even if the stumbling is on account of their own weakness. I want you to know that I support your work and would not show up on your blog to cause trouble or to inflict pain, and I only wish the best for you. Just in case anything I said got misconstrued, you have my apologies. I support you in challenging the label of “heresy” being placed on anything out of a critical spirit. God bless you today. -Me
Hi Larry, I’m not sure if you were talking to me or to Wayne. I just wanted to respond to say thank you for reminding us of these things because yes, it is so important to remain teachable, to love teachers in your life, to seek a biblical foundation, and to test the spirits. What you said about seeking greater clarity with the help of another believer is very good advice, too. Thank you. Personally, I have made many mistakes in seeking to hear God’s voice. Sometimes I have been really wrong, all because I didn’t recognize the importance of making sure that what I thought I was hearing was in line with what the bible says. Sometimes the problem was that I didn’t know how to go about doing this. There have also been plenty of times that I “heard” God (was prompted by the Holy Spirit in one way or another), and it was in line with the bible, and the fruit of that was good in my life. It’s a growth process, just like everything else, and none of us are going to do it perfectly without some practice. For me, the way I often “hear” God’s voice is through something that I come across during my day that the Holy Spirit “highlights” for me with a stirring in my spirit. Other times it’s different, like the “still, small voice” in my heart. Or finding that I’ve been guided – perhaps without even knowing it – to something that I need, similar to what you described about the website that you found helpful. Other times it’s a “word picture” that I am able to internally visualize – a picture is worth a thousand words, after all – such as the one I shared above about gazing into God’s eyes. I believe God can speak through anything he wants; Jesus used the everyday things around him when he spoke/taught, and Romans 1 says that God can be understood through creation itself. The important part, like you said, is whether it is in line with the bible, and if the fruit of it is good or bad. As an example, gazing into the eyes of Jesus is a “word picture” that helps me receive God’s love and overcome the fear of man (the fruit of it is good), and it brings to mind the verse that says, “Fix your eyes on the author and finisher of your faith,” and other biblical concepts (too much to include here) about obedience, Jesus being the head of the church, the fear of God vs. the fear of man, the sufferings Jesus endured among men to be obedient to his Father, and the love of God. Again, thank you for reminding us of the importance of truth. Amen to God being Love! Blessings to you.
By the way, I loved The Shack too, Howard. However, I do think there were some things in it that need to be handled gently when it comes to individuals. Some people are able to get past some things about that book that other people see as not being biblical. Personally, I really enjoyed the book, and yet I hold a couple of concepts at arm’s length, receiving only what is good for me. Some people think more literally than others, and have a hard time understanding why it would be okay for God to be represented by a woman, for example, when he is referred to in the bible as a male. For me, I was moved by learning (from a video with the author speaking from his life) why he chose a specific type of woman to represent the Father, and it blessed me. But for someone such as Larry, maybe he was not able to get past the literal interpretation, and it was only a stumbling block to him. I saw a brief video of a pastor preaching about the heresy of The Shack, and it did not bless me, because it seemed judgmental, critical, and skipping the intention of the author. But God is able to use anything for good. Maybe God really did want Larry to stay away from that book because it did not serve to encourage his faith or to keep his thoughts in line with scripture. But maybe you and I could enjoy the book because it was able to encourage us and expound on what we read in the bible about God in a way that didn’t twist scripture in our minds. “If I…can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge…but have not love, I am nothing.” If our freedom is greater than that of another, we have to use it to love. We have to allow room for the convictions and needs of others to be different than our own, and to want what is in the best interest of another. God bless!
Larry, I’m curious what “heresies” you found in THE SHACK, and don’t you think that word is a bit strong just because you might have disagreed with something we wrote? I’ve read many lists supposedly unmasking the heresies behind THE SHACK, and I haven’t read a list yet that wasn’t filled with distortion, lies, and innuendo. The supposed heresies they unmasked weren’t even in the book to start with. I worked on the book for sixteen months before it was released, so I’ve got a very clear sense of what’s behind the book and how biblical the theologies were that we put in it.
Many people didn’t like this book because the picture of God there was more loving and compassionate and friendly than they were and couldn’t bear the notion that God is not an angry bully in the universe manipulating people to his own ends. Instead they found a God whose love actually heals and sets right what sin has damaged in our lives.
But whether you like the book or not, throwing around accusations of heresy seems a bit over the top!
Just to be clear….Wayne, I respect your work and appreciate the gift you offered the world through The Shack. Many people have been blessed and experienced breakthroughs in their lives in their understanding of God because of that book….there’s no disputing that. In what I said, I wasn’t trying to imply that I actually believe that heresy exists in that book. I don’t support the idea of anyone picking a book apart and then taking their criticism to a public arena to do further damage. It’s enough to preach in a way that builds people up in biblical-based truth that serves as a foundation when we go about making our own personal choices, and to encourage others to use discernment. I was only attempting to highlight the importance of accepting the weaknesses of others – such as having difficulty getting past a literal interpretation into a deeper, more meaningful, metaphorical interpretation – accepting each other in our quirks and weaknesses, wanting what is best for one another, and using our freedom to love (rather than try to force others into the same freedom). No matter how much I love The Shack and think everyone else should love it too, what’s most important is that every believer is only built up in their faith and does not stumble over anything – even if the stumbling is on account of their own weakness. I want you to know that I support your work and would not show up on your blog to cause trouble or to inflict pain, and I only wish the best for you. Just in case anything I said got misconstrued, you have my apologies. I support you in challenging the label of “heresy” being placed on anything out of a critical spirit. God bless you today. -Me
Thank You, when I look read, hear, touch, I sift it all through the inward man of my heart for that inward man is the Holy Ghost, ans the Holy Ghost will produce God’s love in and through me as The Holy ghost does thriugh each believers heart, a heart of flesh the original heart that was in the Garden beofre they ate of. In other words if what is being done, said, if it = s LOVE, God’s then it is good for only God is good. And what you presented is Good from God and thank you again
Howard
larry, just for understanding I myself have been through the heresis issues. Which in effect is under the law, and I found when i was rigid it was from me trying to obey the law and in order. Wow Larry I found out that I myself could not obey the law, then from clergy at that time I was told to trust for God’s help and I would get closer, but I needed the church (building) the called out pastor (s), and deacons, and on and on. I headed down that road as well I am going to make it with God’s help.
Well that did not do me any good as well, for I was still under the law. Then I read how Jesus before his death on the cross, showed everyone that they were unable to obey the law at all. Even to the ones that did not even believe in Jesus, the leaders and pastors of that day. He added to the law and said if you even lust after a woman in your heart, you have already committed adultery. They were stumped and put aside then some they did not do that. So jesus said if you are even mad at your brother you have already committed murder.
You see brother no one could ever obey the law, so Jesus went to a cross to take away the sins and bring in a new covenant freed from the law, that is you trying to obey it for Jesus did it for you. We are under a new covenant, read it Larry Hebrews 9:15- through to the end of nine and onto chapter 10
We are no longer under the curse and released to love all as god has already shown his love for all through Christ, sending us his Holy spirit that was with him the whole ministry, that once you believe you have also, Love you and that is what goes on forever brother is LOVE God’s kind
Howard standing up for the truth
Wayne, I know you, and I think your flesh got hit here a little
But whether you like the book or not, throwing around accusations of heresy seems a bit over the top!
i think Larry might not understand the new covenant, only Larry can answer this. I was once caught up under the curse of the law, and when I was I would have probably thrown out accusations as well.
Well Larry please come forward, I know wayne will hear you for Wayne has the heart of god delivered by God and that is love as God loves Wayne, me and all the poeple in this world whether they believe or not. So Larry I know if I only love those that love me, then I am no better than the heathen. Think about this How can I claim God’s Love if I do not love all whether they believe or not whether they are gay or not, no matter what denomination they are or not. God loved the whole world and all. God still does Jesus said this about if we only love those that love us then we are no differant than the heathen. It is in Matthew. Love you Larry and all here seeking truth to be set free, Howard
Thank You, when I look read, hear, touch, I sift it all through the inward man of my heart for that inward man is the Holy Ghost, ans the Holy Ghost will produce God’s love in and through me as The Holy ghost does thriugh each believers heart, a heart of flesh the original heart that was in the Garden beofre they ate of. In other words if what is being done, said, if it = s LOVE, God’s then it is good for only God is good. And what you presented is Good from God and thank you again
Howard
larry, just for understanding I myself have been through the heresis issues. Which in effect is under the law, and I found when i was rigid it was from me trying to obey the law and in order. Wow Larry I found out that I myself could not obey the law, then from clergy at that time I was told to trust for God’s help and I would get closer, but I needed the church (building) the called out pastor (s), and deacons, and on and on. I headed down that road as well I am going to make it with God’s help.
Well that did not do me any good as well, for I was still under the law. Then I read how Jesus before his death on the cross, showed everyone that they were unable to obey the law at all. Even to the ones that did not even believe in Jesus, the leaders and pastors of that day. He added to the law and said if you even lust after a woman in your heart, you have already committed adultery. They were stumped and put aside then some they did not do that. So jesus said if you are even mad at your brother you have already committed murder.
You see brother no one could ever obey the law, so Jesus went to a cross to take away the sins and bring in a new covenant freed from the law, that is you trying to obey it for Jesus did it for you. We are under a new covenant, read it Larry Hebrews 9:15- through to the end of nine and onto chapter 10
We are no longer under the curse and released to love all as god has already shown his love for all through Christ, sending us his Holy spirit that was with him the whole ministry, that once you believe you have also, Love you and that is what goes on forever brother is LOVE God’s kind
Howard standing up for the truth
Wayne, I know you, and I think your flesh got hit here a little
But whether you like the book or not, throwing around accusations of heresy seems a bit over the top!
i think Larry might not understand the new covenant, only Larry can answer this. I was once caught up under the curse of the law, and when I was I would have probably thrown out accusations as well.
Well Larry please come forward, I know wayne will hear you for Wayne has the heart of god delivered by God and that is love as God loves Wayne, me and all the poeple in this world whether they believe or not. So Larry I know if I only love those that love me, then I am no better than the heathen. Think about this How can I claim God’s Love if I do not love all whether they believe or not whether they are gay or not, no matter what denomination they are or not. God loved the whole world and all. God still does Jesus said this about if we only love those that love us then we are no differant than the heathen. It is in Matthew. Love you Larry and all here seeking truth to be set free, Howard
Howard – it sounds like you were touched by God, which makes me happy. I was too. After I wrote, I felt God’s presence in the way of a strong and abiding peace, and an increase in grace and joy. Somehow the rest of my day was easier than it had been in a while. God had brought to mind 1 Cor. 13:2 on Saturday, along with an impression that I was to share it here, but it made no sense to me until I found myself naturally talking about it a few days later. I don’t think it was only for you, but I am blessed by your receptiveness. I wasn’t coming from a “know-it-all” place, but from a conviction to speak the truth in the company of other believers, so that our conversation only builds others up. I said everything with a lot of love. I like that feeling when God’s spirit is near and you can feel him doing something, big or small! You are a faithful friend to Wayne.
C. Dunamis – I’ve gone back to read your comment several times, because it caused me to laugh! Not because of mockery, but because God sits on his throne and laughs at his enemies. Thank you.
Larry – I hope we haven’t run you off with so many comments to you or discussing you. That would make me want to run, but obviously you are very important to us. From what you wrote, it’s possible that you didn’t even know that Wayne worked on The Shack, and that you were just trying to be helpful and enjoy having God’s love in common with all of us. What we all have in common here are weaknesses (everybody’s got ’em), areas we are still growing in, and a dependency on God’s love and grace. You are welcome to join us.
Wayne – I don’t have a habit of repeatedly commenting anywhere on the internet. This was unusual for me, so I just wanted to say that the original topic was a good one.
Howard – it sounds like you were touched by God, which makes me happy. I was too. After I wrote, I felt God’s presence in the way of a strong and abiding peace, and an increase in grace and joy. Somehow the rest of my day was easier than it had been in a while. God had brought to mind 1 Cor. 13:2 on Saturday, along with an impression that I was to share it here, but it made no sense to me until I found myself naturally talking about it a few days later. I don’t think it was only for you, but I am blessed by your receptiveness. I wasn’t coming from a “know-it-all” place, but from a conviction to speak the truth in the company of other believers, so that our conversation only builds others up. I said everything with a lot of love. I like that feeling when God’s spirit is near and you can feel him doing something, big or small! You are a faithful friend to Wayne.
C. Dunamis – I’ve gone back to read your comment several times, because it caused me to laugh! Not because of mockery, but because God sits on his throne and laughs at his enemies. Thank you.
Larry – I hope we haven’t run you off with so many comments to you or discussing you. That would make me want to run, but obviously you are very important to us. From what you wrote, it’s possible that you didn’t even know that Wayne worked on The Shack, and that you were just trying to be helpful and enjoy having God’s love in common with all of us. What we all have in common here are weaknesses (everybody’s got ’em), areas we are still growing in, and a dependency on God’s love and grace. You are welcome to join us.
Wayne – I don’t have a habit of repeatedly commenting anywhere on the internet. This was unusual for me, so I just wanted to say that the original topic was a good one.
Comment by Me | 2012/04/18 at 07:36:14
Howard – it sounds like you were touched by God, which makes me happy. I was too. After I wrote, I felt God’s presence in the way of a strong and abiding peace, and an increase in grace and joy. Somehow the rest of my day was easier than it had been in a while. God had brought to mind 1 Cor. 13:2 on Saturday, along with an impression that I was to share it here, but it made no sense to me until I found myself naturally talking about it a few days
Thank you, Read the end of 1corithians 13 at verse 13. It is love that goes on forever, all else will pass. It is by love that we are all saved, all the other stuff in between is the B’s and Ys, for the lord is the A to the Z and a lot of us are caught between the B and the Y. Thinking go here no go there, and over there, when God is in you via the Holy Spirit of truth. When we give up trying to please others and or God. Or just looking to feel right with God. Thus we can see that we are already made right with God through his Son Jesus Christ, because of the foundation of the cross where all sins were taken away from god’s vantage point. God in the power of the Holy Ghost is able to indwell you, for in God’s point of view you through Christ have been (past tense) made Holy forever in God’s sight. So now once you receive this stand up in his power, forsaking any of our own power, and walk Holy as he is Holy. Read Romans 6:2 6:5-7 6:10 6:13,14 6:17 obeying is from the heart, the new heart you have been given 6:18, being then made free from sin Romans 7:4-6 7:8 7:11-12 error, sin takes occasion by the commandment not the law itself the commandment. 7:13-22, especially verse the inward man is the Holy Ghost implanted in you the believer, and learn to follow that inward man the Holy Ghost. This holy ghost is the self same Holy Ghost that led Jesus here on earth.
Thank you all for listening unto listening to the Holy Ghost of your heart, where you are made alive by God the Father of Jesus Christ, and you will know all things, and you will be set free from the bondage of the law, that this whole world is under its elememts
Love you all homward bound at http://www.godjustloveyou.blogspot.com Howard Schultz
Comment by Me | 2012/04/18 at 07:36:14
Howard – it sounds like you were touched by God, which makes me happy. I was too. After I wrote, I felt God’s presence in the way of a strong and abiding peace, and an increase in grace and joy. Somehow the rest of my day was easier than it had been in a while. God had brought to mind 1 Cor. 13:2 on Saturday, along with an impression that I was to share it here, but it made no sense to me until I found myself naturally talking about it a few days
Thank you, Read the end of 1corithians 13 at verse 13. It is love that goes on forever, all else will pass. It is by love that we are all saved, all the other stuff in between is the B’s and Ys, for the lord is the A to the Z and a lot of us are caught between the B and the Y. Thinking go here no go there, and over there, when God is in you via the Holy Spirit of truth. When we give up trying to please others and or God. Or just looking to feel right with God. Thus we can see that we are already made right with God through his Son Jesus Christ, because of the foundation of the cross where all sins were taken away from god’s vantage point. God in the power of the Holy Ghost is able to indwell you, for in God’s point of view you through Christ have been (past tense) made Holy forever in God’s sight. So now once you receive this stand up in his power, forsaking any of our own power, and walk Holy as he is Holy. Read Romans 6:2 6:5-7 6:10 6:13,14 6:17 obeying is from the heart, the new heart you have been given 6:18, being then made free from sin Romans 7:4-6 7:8 7:11-12 error, sin takes occasion by the commandment not the law itself the commandment. 7:13-22, especially verse the inward man is the Holy Ghost implanted in you the believer, and learn to follow that inward man the Holy Ghost. This holy ghost is the self same Holy Ghost that led Jesus here on earth.
Thank you all for listening unto listening to the Holy Ghost of your heart, where you are made alive by God the Father of Jesus Christ, and you will know all things, and you will be set free from the bondage of the law, that this whole world is under its elememts
Love you all homward bound at http://www.godjustloveyou.blogspot.com Howard Schultz
Amen! so wonderful! Read all the verses too. Let’s pray for all of us to experience the abiding hope and power of the resurrection today! The fun thing about talking to believers on a blog is the unity we share with one another, and the One Spirit we have in common, moving in us wherever we are. Just by our words with one another, darkness is expelled and the rule of God’s kingdom is advanced and expands in our hearts and lives. (great big smile)
“So now once you receive this stand up in his power, forsaking any of our own power, and walk Holy as he is Holy.” -Howard
me said
Let’s pray for all of us to experience the abiding hope and power of the resurrection today
Yes I agree how about the past tense form where we do not know how, but we know God is faithful to do his work in and through the believers asking for God to not only work in us, but through us. In other words we say thanks for God’s will that is done and for all of us to receive this daily, as we travel in this world of no care and fake care.
Thanks Me
Howard
Amen! so wonderful! Read all the verses too. Let’s pray for all of us to experience the abiding hope and power of the resurrection today! The fun thing about talking to believers on a blog is the unity we share with one another, and the One Spirit we have in common, moving in us wherever we are. Just by our words with one another, darkness is expelled and the rule of God’s kingdom is advanced and expands in our hearts and lives. (great big smile)
“So now once you receive this stand up in his power, forsaking any of our own power, and walk Holy as he is Holy.” -Howard
me said
Let’s pray for all of us to experience the abiding hope and power of the resurrection today
Yes I agree how about the past tense form where we do not know how, but we know God is faithful to do his work in and through the believers asking for God to not only work in us, but through us. In other words we say thanks for God’s will that is done and for all of us to receive this daily, as we travel in this world of no care and fake care.
Thanks Me
Howard
Yes I agree for the past tense too…
My heart is heavy with compassion for all who are struggling with pain and bitterness. God is calling us to a higher love – one that sees the view from above. When we see from above, we see what we have in common with other believers, rather than what drives us apart. We are able to overlook offenses, rejoice in what is good, bless in return for cursing and accusation, and love others even as we make different choices than they do. We live out what we see and believe to be truth, we obey the Father, and wherever we encounter opposition for these choices, we offer the love we have freely received. We go about giving, just tossing presents around like it’s Christmas. If we are bold and firm in the truth, it comes from a righteous place, where we are at peace (we are secure and at rest in the sovereignty of God) in the face of evil. When we are overflowing with Love, we are caught up in a reality so wonderful that we look for opportunities to give what we already have, rather than to receive from others what they are not capable of giving us. When we are filled with Love, we are more concerned with giving than with our own comfort. (But we can’t give what we have not received!)
The wonderful thing about what I am sharing is that I am brand new to what I am talking about, and I am weak, but God’s strength is made perfect in weakness. If I believe that there is hope for ME to walk in this kind of amazing Love, then there is definitely hope for YOU! I have struggled, suffered, been wounded, been betrayed. I’ve been a victim, I’ve been bitter, I’ve been angry, I’ve been lonely, I’ve been hopeless, I’ve been afraid. I have sinned a lot. I’ve made mistakes. I’ve also been convicted, and healed, and helped, and encouraged. I’ve been embraced and accepted and valued and adored. I have overcome, and I choose to continue as an overcomer. I’m still in a long season of enduring betrayal and relentless accusation, but this ordeal has been effective in helping me mature in love faster than I ever would have without it, so I can thank the enemy for it. Sometimes there is no way out but through. That’s when you begin to destroy the enemy with every forward step. Every opposition is an opportunity for growth. Every encounter with your own internal hang-ups is an opportunity for freedom. Every failure is an opportunity to learn something wonderful. We advance by way of acceptance. Wherever you are at, it’s an acceptable place to begin moving forward. You can confess it and receive God’s compassion, lovingkindness, and grace. You don’t have to defeat all your foes before God will receive you or be delighted in you. He walks with you, cares for you, listens to the cries of your heart, collects every tear. He is a warm shelter in the midst of a storm. It’s his mission to heal you where your heart has been broken, to set you free where you feel stuck or trapped. Don’t give up hope! It is a struggle sometimes. We fail, but then we get up again. Jesus is worthy, He is so worthy, He is so worthy, He is so worthy, He is so worthy…..the Lamb that was Slain.
I’m going to share the lyrics of a song I’ve been singing for a long time, but only at home: “When I feel like no one cares, You are there / You take me by the hand and enter into the fire with me / I’m alive because You called my name / You break through my barriers with all of Your waterfalls / Deep to deep! / You meet me face to face / And I overcome to the sound of love / yeah, hey, I hear Your heart! / yeah, hey, I hear Your heart! / It says, “I LOVE YOU! I LOVE YOU!” / I hear your heart! I hear Your heart! I hear your heart! I hear Your heart! / It says, “I LOVE YOU! I LOVE YOU!” / I hear your heart! I hear Your heart! I hear your heart! I hear Your heart! I hear Your heart!! I hear Your heart!!! / Nobody knows me like You do! / Oh, nobody loves me like You do, Jesus! / Nobody knows me like You do! / Oh, nobody loves me like You do! / I’m FREE to BE ME in Your arms! / I’m free in Your arms! / Oh, hold me! Oh, come hold me! / Hold me! Put your arms around me! / Hold me! Oh surround me! / (Sound of larger and larger waves coming, until one comes that the Body of Christ surfs to the shore) / Hold me! / The earth shakes, and (My/my) heart breaks, everybody awakes to the beat of a different drum / The earth shakes, and (My/my) heart breaks, everybody awakes to the beat of a different drum (repeat this 6 more times) / Hold me! / (The drums take over, and we have a dance party…at least in my heart, because I don’t play the drums, and I am only one person. I picture the whole Body of Christ with me. Through our worship, we prophesy life into the valley of dry bones, we rejoice in the depth of God’s love, and we declare life and blessing and victory wherever it looks like there is none.)
“If you want to say that I was a drum major, say that I was a drum major for justice. Say that I was a drum major for peace. I was a drum major for righteousness. And all of the other shallow things will not matter.” – Martin Luther King Jr.
Yes I agree for the past tense too…
My heart is heavy with compassion for all who are struggling with pain and bitterness. God is calling us to a higher love – one that sees the view from above. When we see from above, we see what we have in common with other believers, rather than what drives us apart. We are able to overlook offenses, rejoice in what is good, bless in return for cursing and accusation, and love others even as we make different choices than they do. We live out what we see and believe to be truth, we obey the Father, and wherever we encounter opposition for these choices, we offer the love we have freely received. We go about giving, just tossing presents around like it’s Christmas. If we are bold and firm in the truth, it comes from a righteous place, where we are at peace (we are secure and at rest in the sovereignty of God) in the face of evil. When we are overflowing with Love, we are caught up in a reality so wonderful that we look for opportunities to give what we already have, rather than to receive from others what they are not capable of giving us. When we are filled with Love, we are more concerned with giving than with our own comfort. (But we can’t give what we have not received!)
The wonderful thing about what I am sharing is that I am brand new to what I am talking about, and I am weak, but God’s strength is made perfect in weakness. If I believe that there is hope for ME to walk in this kind of amazing Love, then there is definitely hope for YOU! I have struggled, suffered, been wounded, been betrayed. I’ve been a victim, I’ve been bitter, I’ve been angry, I’ve been lonely, I’ve been hopeless, I’ve been afraid. I have sinned a lot. I’ve made mistakes. I’ve also been convicted, and healed, and helped, and encouraged. I’ve been embraced and accepted and valued and adored. I have overcome, and I choose to continue as an overcomer. I’m still in a long season of enduring betrayal and relentless accusation, but this ordeal has been effective in helping me mature in love faster than I ever would have without it, so I can thank the enemy for it. Sometimes there is no way out but through. That’s when you begin to destroy the enemy with every forward step. Every opposition is an opportunity for growth. Every encounter with your own internal hang-ups is an opportunity for freedom. Every failure is an opportunity to learn something wonderful. We advance by way of acceptance. Wherever you are at, it’s an acceptable place to begin moving forward. You can confess it and receive God’s compassion, lovingkindness, and grace. You don’t have to defeat all your foes before God will receive you or be delighted in you. He walks with you, cares for you, listens to the cries of your heart, collects every tear. He is a warm shelter in the midst of a storm. It’s his mission to heal you where your heart has been broken, to set you free where you feel stuck or trapped. Don’t give up hope! It is a struggle sometimes. We fail, but then we get up again. Jesus is worthy, He is so worthy, He is so worthy, He is so worthy, He is so worthy…..the Lamb that was Slain.
I’m going to share the lyrics of a song I’ve been singing for a long time, but only at home: “When I feel like no one cares, You are there / You take me by the hand and enter into the fire with me / I’m alive because You called my name / You break through my barriers with all of Your waterfalls / Deep to deep! / You meet me face to face / And I overcome to the sound of love / yeah, hey, I hear Your heart! / yeah, hey, I hear Your heart! / It says, “I LOVE YOU! I LOVE YOU!” / I hear your heart! I hear Your heart! I hear your heart! I hear Your heart! / It says, “I LOVE YOU! I LOVE YOU!” / I hear your heart! I hear Your heart! I hear your heart! I hear Your heart! I hear Your heart!! I hear Your heart!!! / Nobody knows me like You do! / Oh, nobody loves me like You do, Jesus! / Nobody knows me like You do! / Oh, nobody loves me like You do! / I’m FREE to BE ME in Your arms! / I’m free in Your arms! / Oh, hold me! Oh, come hold me! / Hold me! Put your arms around me! / Hold me! Oh surround me! / (Sound of larger and larger waves coming, until one comes that the Body of Christ surfs to the shore) / Hold me! / The earth shakes, and (My/my) heart breaks, everybody awakes to the beat of a different drum / The earth shakes, and (My/my) heart breaks, everybody awakes to the beat of a different drum (repeat this 6 more times) / Hold me! / (The drums take over, and we have a dance party…at least in my heart, because I don’t play the drums, and I am only one person. I picture the whole Body of Christ with me. Through our worship, we prophesy life into the valley of dry bones, we rejoice in the depth of God’s love, and we declare life and blessing and victory wherever it looks like there is none.)
“If you want to say that I was a drum major, say that I was a drum major for justice. Say that I was a drum major for peace. I was a drum major for righteousness. And all of the other shallow things will not matter.” – Martin Luther King Jr.
The wonderful thing about what I am sharing is that I am brand new to what I am talking about, and I am weak, but God’s strength is made perfect in weakness. If I believe that there is hope for ME to walk in this kind of amazing Love, then there is definitely hope for YOU! I have struggled, suffered, been wounded, been betrayed. I’ve been a victim, I’ve been bitter, I’ve been angry, I’ve been lonely, I’ve been hopeless, I’ve been afraid. I have sinned a lot. I’ve made mistakes. I’ve also been convicted, and healed, and helped, and encouraged. I’ve been embraced and accepted and valued and adored. I have overcome, and I choose to continue as an overcomer. I’m still in a long season of enduring betrayal and relentless accusation, but this ordeal has been effective in helping me mature in love faster than I ever would have without it, so I can thank the enemy for it.
Thanks Me, I only copied alittle bit, but wow man, stay with this first love, Howard
“Thanks Me, I only copied alittle bit, but wow man, stay with this first love, Howard”
Well, I am a woman, and by the grace of God I will! God bless! 🙂
The wonderful thing about what I am sharing is that I am brand new to what I am talking about, and I am weak, but God’s strength is made perfect in weakness. If I believe that there is hope for ME to walk in this kind of amazing Love, then there is definitely hope for YOU! I have struggled, suffered, been wounded, been betrayed. I’ve been a victim, I’ve been bitter, I’ve been angry, I’ve been lonely, I’ve been hopeless, I’ve been afraid. I have sinned a lot. I’ve made mistakes. I’ve also been convicted, and healed, and helped, and encouraged. I’ve been embraced and accepted and valued and adored. I have overcome, and I choose to continue as an overcomer. I’m still in a long season of enduring betrayal and relentless accusation, but this ordeal has been effective in helping me mature in love faster than I ever would have without it, so I can thank the enemy for it.
Thanks Me, I only copied alittle bit, but wow man, stay with this first love, Howard
Comment by Me | 2012/04/20 at 07:04:29
“Thanks Me, I only copied alittle bit, but wow man, stay with this first love, Howard”
Well, I am a woman, and by the grace of God I will! God bless!
welll thanks for that yet i rather like to think as the Holy Ghost taught me and is in te bible as well, there is no Jew, no greek, no gentile, no male no feamle, for we are all one those that believe. this takes a lot of stress off, and is a differant way of viewing as the world views, and it aes comes for this saying to become a part of me, thanks again me Howard
“Thanks Me, I only copied alittle bit, but wow man, stay with this first love, Howard”
Well, I am a woman, and by the grace of God I will! God bless! 🙂
“there is no Jew, no greek, no gentile, no male no feamle, for we are all one those that believe.”
Yes, I agree and love that this is so important to you, since it is so important to God. That’s exactly why I was pointing out that I was a woman – because I am “proud” of the value God places on being one. In the world’s eyes, I am “just” a stay-at-home mom. But in God’s eyes, I am just as important as anybody else, and the gifts God has placed in me are just as valuable as any other gift God has to offer through his people. The same is true for everybody, no matter who you are or where you come from. The Body of Christ is made up of parts, and it takes all of those parts to function and to walk as one whole “man.” We walk together, and we are not alone – even when we feel like the latter is a better option, and trust me, I have been there! 🙂 hahaha
Comment by Me | 2012/04/20 at 07:04:29
“Thanks Me, I only copied alittle bit, but wow man, stay with this first love, Howard”
Well, I am a woman, and by the grace of God I will! God bless!
welll thanks for that yet i rather like to think as the Holy Ghost taught me and is in te bible as well, there is no Jew, no greek, no gentile, no male no feamle, for we are all one those that believe. this takes a lot of stress off, and is a differant way of viewing as the world views, and it aes comes for this saying to become a part of me, thanks again me Howard
“there is no Jew, no greek, no gentile, no male no feamle, for we are all one those that believe.”
Yes, I agree and love that this is so important to you, since it is so important to God. That’s exactly why I was pointing out that I was a woman – because I am “proud” of the value God places on being one. In the world’s eyes, I am “just” a stay-at-home mom. But in God’s eyes, I am just as important as anybody else, and the gifts God has placed in me are just as valuable as any other gift God has to offer through his people. The same is true for everybody, no matter who you are or where you come from. The Body of Christ is made up of parts, and it takes all of those parts to function and to walk as one whole “man.” We walk together, and we are not alone – even when we feel like the latter is a better option, and trust me, I have been there! 🙂 hahaha
Thanks Me; And i really like that 1X1X1X1x1 always equals one
Howard
HAHAHA! Yes, let there be multiplication! I guess God made it so that no matter how many people came under his rule, it would always equal a number that was still manageable. He’s so good at keeping things simple! 🙂
Thanks Me; And i really like that 1X1X1X1x1 always equals one
Howard
HAHAHA! Yes, let there be multiplication! I guess God made it so that no matter how many people came under his rule, it would always equal a number that was still manageable. He’s so good at keeping things simple! 🙂
Comment by Me | 2012/04/20 at 20:55:03
HAHAHA! Yes, let there be multiplication! I guess God made it so that no matter how many people came under his rule, it would always equal a number that was still manageable. He’s so good at keeping things simple!
YES, THIS IS SO TRUE, this is why I think to watch out for carnality, flesh and blood for when that gets in the way things become so diificult, and it is all around us in this world. It seems that this world (carnal minded)wants problems, for I think if there were none, the ones that are carnal minded think they would be jobless. It seems to me that job security can really play tricks on the carnal mind.
1 Corinthians chapter 3 for instance. I think it was job security that got the pharisees to thinking we got to get rid of this Jesus, no one is attending our sermon, they are all gone after this Jesus. Little did any of them know how glorious this was and is today for all those that believe and all those that will come to belief. There is a lot of worry of this job security here and now, and the stress from it (thoughts) have become a ball and chain stopping ones excercising Faith. So instead I think excercise Faith in god who said seek ye the kingdom of Heaven first and all your needs will be supplied. I know this to be true. Kind of like all things are beautiful, just not everyone sees this, and from God’s vantage point this is true
Howard
Comment by Me | 2012/04/20 at 20:55:03
HAHAHA! Yes, let there be multiplication! I guess God made it so that no matter how many people came under his rule, it would always equal a number that was still manageable. He’s so good at keeping things simple!
YES, THIS IS SO TRUE, this is why I think to watch out for carnality, flesh and blood for when that gets in the way things become so diificult, and it is all around us in this world. It seems that this world (carnal minded)wants problems, for I think if there were none, the ones that are carnal minded think they would be jobless. It seems to me that job security can really play tricks on the carnal mind.
1 Corinthians chapter 3 for instance. I think it was job security that got the pharisees to thinking we got to get rid of this Jesus, no one is attending our sermon, they are all gone after this Jesus. Little did any of them know how glorious this was and is today for all those that believe and all those that will come to belief. There is a lot of worry of this job security here and now, and the stress from it (thoughts) have become a ball and chain stopping ones excercising Faith. So instead I think excercise Faith in god who said seek ye the kingdom of Heaven first and all your needs will be supplied. I know this to be true. Kind of like all things are beautiful, just not everyone sees this, and from God’s vantage point this is true
Howard
Yes, good word…
Howard, I am feeling the need to personally wrap things up here and be done. I’ve said what I felt God wanted me to say. If you or someone else feels God wants you to share something else, you are all free to do that. I have appreciated so much having you to agree with me in prayer and in truth by the power of the Holy Spirit. Normally, it goes against my code of ethics to totally change topics in the comments section of someone else’s blog – especially when that person already has such good things to say – but I will make an exception to be obedient to God. I don’t know where Wayne went, but he is loved and respected, wherever he is. I don’t know where everyone else went either, but I like to think that they were following along and responding to the Holy Spirit’s leading in their own lives. I pray everyone here is blessed. Oddly enough, I believe that what just happened, is we had a church meeting on a blog! I don’t know if the meeting is over yet or not, but I am going to “sit down” now and see what happens.
We have had agreement on the earth for the Lord’s will, some teaching, some prophetic encouragement (speaking out of the Lord’s heart for his people in the moment), a song………..all the “normal” stuff for believers when we are in each other’s company. Overall, we have a running theme of growing in love and unity with each other, and overcoming the flesh through the finished work of Jesus’ death and resurrection – which comes by the power of the Holy Spirit abiding in us. I will leave us with some verses related to what just happened, leaving it open for it to continue if anyone feels led.
Ephesians 5:19-21
Colossians 3:12-17
1 Corinthians 14:26, 29
Matthew 18:19
Thank you again, and God bless us all!
-Me
Yes, good word…
Howard, I am feeling the need to personally wrap things up here and be done. I’ve said what I felt God wanted me to say. If you or someone else feels God wants you to share something else, you are all free to do that. I have appreciated so much having you to agree with me in prayer and in truth by the power of the Holy Spirit. Normally, it goes against my code of ethics to totally change topics in the comments section of someone else’s blog – especially when that person already has such good things to say – but I will make an exception to be obedient to God. I don’t know where Wayne went, but he is loved and respected, wherever he is. I don’t know where everyone else went either, but I like to think that they were following along and responding to the Holy Spirit’s leading in their own lives. I pray everyone here is blessed. Oddly enough, I believe that what just happened, is we had a church meeting on a blog! I don’t know if the meeting is over yet or not, but I am going to “sit down” now and see what happens.
We have had agreement on the earth for the Lord’s will, some teaching, some prophetic encouragement (speaking out of the Lord’s heart for his people in the moment), a song………..all the “normal” stuff for believers when we are in each other’s company. Overall, we have a running theme of growing in love and unity with each other, and overcoming the flesh through the finished work of Jesus’ death and resurrection – which comes by the power of the Holy Spirit abiding in us. I will leave us with some verses related to what just happened, leaving it open for it to continue if anyone feels led.
Ephesians 5:19-21
Colossians 3:12-17
1 Corinthians 14:26, 29
Matthew 18:19
Thank you again, and God bless us all!
-Me
Comment by Me | 2012/04/21 at 10:01:41
Yes, good word…
Howard, I am feeling the need to personally wrap things up here and be done
Ephesians 5:19-21
Colossians 3:12-17
1 Corinthians 14:26, 29
Matthew 18:19
Thank you again, and God bless us all!
-Me
Yes and Thank you in love from Christ, it really is amazing how God’s love will go on and has forever
Howard
Comment by Me | 2012/04/21 at 10:01:41
Yes, good word…
Howard, I am feeling the need to personally wrap things up here and be done
Ephesians 5:19-21
Colossians 3:12-17
1 Corinthians 14:26, 29
Matthew 18:19
Thank you again, and God bless us all!
-Me
Yes and Thank you in love from Christ, it really is amazing how God’s love will go on and has forever
Howard
Hey I just wanted to put it out there that there is a great article by Clayton Sandell of ABC news, called “‘Prayer One’: Denver Ministry Offers Heavenly Perspective.” It’s about people being lifted up to see “from above,” in order to help them escape, heal, and overcome division and problems. Gang members go up in the sky and are changed. It was a very inspiring story.
Also, in the last 2 days, I’ve seen 3 stories about healing from physical and emotional wounds, and PTSD. One was the Wounded Warriors ride (wounded vets who choose to move forward and overcome), another was a survivor of the Columbine massacre who is filming a documentary in an attempt to help his alumni get free counseling for PTSD, and another was about some very brave people helping elephants learn to trust humans again, after they’ve been killed by them and suffered grief. (Elephants never forget.)
I believe God really is focused on healing right now, and on helping us find love and see “from above.” Some things just aren’t coincidences. He cares so much for us and for what we have endured, and he will help us overcome.
Hey I just wanted to put it out there that there is a great article by Clayton Sandell of ABC news, called “‘Prayer One’: Denver Ministry Offers Heavenly Perspective.” It’s about people being lifted up to see “from above,” in order to help them escape, heal, and overcome division and problems. Gang members go up in the sky and are changed. It was a very inspiring story.
Also, in the last 2 days, I’ve seen 3 stories about healing from physical and emotional wounds, and PTSD. One was the Wounded Warriors ride (wounded vets who choose to move forward and overcome), another was a survivor of the Columbine massacre who is filming a documentary in an attempt to help his alumni get free counseling for PTSD, and another was about some very brave people helping elephants learn to trust humans again, after they’ve been killed by them and suffered grief. (Elephants never forget.)
I believe God really is focused on healing right now, and on helping us find love and see “from above.” Some things just aren’t coincidences. He cares so much for us and for what we have endured, and he will help us overcome.
Thanks me, I will try to find it tonight when I am off work, Howard
Yes, I do think God is on the move stronger than ever, Howard
Thanks me, I will try to find it tonight when I am off work, Howard
Yes, I do think God is on the move stronger than ever, Howard
Just wanted to say thank you again, Howard, for being receptive to the Holy Spirit. Your agreement by the Holy Spirit really encouraged and supported me in obeying God. I’m also aware that the agreement was made available for God’s sake and had nothing to do with me, and there was teaching that flowed out of you for a purpose. My husband encouraged me a lot to obey God and speak up, too, even though he had other things that required his focus. That support really helped. In my first comment, I was confessing my struggle with the fear of man and with wanting approval from spiritual leaders. In the others, God was giving me the grace to risk that approval and to overcome the fear of man, in spite of my weakness. Just goes to show us that when we feel we don’t have it within us to do what God is asking us to do, the will and the grace and the strength we need is provided to us by the Holy Spirit. I am thankful for grace and encouragement from God in spite of my fear, but my prayer is still that God will transform my heart and help me “get over it!” 🙂 But every step is a step forward, and this challenge in obedience helped me grow. (I know that I’m an anonymous person on here, but behind the anonymity, I’m still a person with feelings. God, PLEASE! Help me get over those FEELINGS! haha 🙂 )
Just wanted to say thank you again, Howard, for being receptive to the Holy Spirit. Your agreement by the Holy Spirit really encouraged and supported me in obeying God. I’m also aware that the agreement was made available for God’s sake and had nothing to do with me, and there was teaching that flowed out of you for a purpose. My husband encouraged me a lot to obey God and speak up, too, even though he had other things that required his focus. That support really helped. In my first comment, I was confessing my struggle with the fear of man and with wanting approval from spiritual leaders. In the others, God was giving me the grace to risk that approval and to overcome the fear of man, in spite of my weakness. Just goes to show us that when we feel we don’t have it within us to do what God is asking us to do, the will and the grace and the strength we need is provided to us by the Holy Spirit. I am thankful for grace and encouragement from God in spite of my fear, but my prayer is still that God will transform my heart and help me “get over it!” 🙂 But every step is a step forward, and this challenge in obedience helped me grow. (I know that I’m an anonymous person on here, but behind the anonymity, I’m still a person with feelings. God, PLEASE! Help me get over those FEELINGS! haha 🙂 )
I didn’t mean ALL my feelings. Just the ones that are a reflection of my sin.
Me, I also have had to face a lot of fears. today they have been faced, with one left to be done.
When I was 14 my sister Sue died on an overdose at 18 years of age. This took a long time to get over this and past this, along with many other things that occured after this beginning of Satan wanting to sift me like wheat, but as Jesus said to Peter, hey Peter Satan wishes to sift you like wheat, yet I pray for you and when you return (learn) YOU WILL STRENGTHEN THE BRETREN.
This is for you as well and as many that believe. You will learn what perfect love is and that will cast out all fear. Who can stand against when God is for you. From God’s vantage point you have been made perfect forever and holy forever in God’s sight. For God only sees through his Son Jesus Christ unto you, you, and you. God who knows no sin can now work with each believer personally, teaching them how to walk in the Spirit continuously, knowing no fear. Facing reality for reality. For there is nothing I can do about my Sister, my dad, my brother, my mother for they all have past on.
I am no longer hurt over it. Because today I have welcomed them all to their new location and I am at rest here. Then there are those that have done me wrong, okay I finaly realized that is on them. Then there are those that I have done wrong. So I searched out forgiveness from those that I could find and asked those for it. Not all forgave and no one had to forgive, but I had to be free from the wrongs I had done to others. So today I am free with one last thing to settle, and that is on its way.
You see we are already forgiven by god period. So this is why I went to seek forgiveness from those I hurt. Since God had already forgiven me before I was ever born. The holy Spirit put it on my heart. Today I am glad I listened. Sister you do whatever it is on your heart. It might hurt like peeling an onion, yet when you reach the center it is so sweet and freeing Love Howard
understood, no waves here, you are loved
Howard
I appreciate that some of you have connected here with some real encouragement for each other. I’ve let this go on much longer that seems appropriate for this blog because I was hopeful that at some point you would take this connection to another venue. This is not a chat room, it is a blog and comments on that blog that people can read. Please don’t take this as a rebuke. It isn’t. It’s just an appeal to take the ongoing dialog to a different venue, especially when it no longer has to do with the blog itself. There are many ways for the folks that are involved in a conversation here to take it to a chat room or email loop that allows you to communicate with each other. I hope you receive this in the spirit it was intended. I would be very grateful…
No problem Wayne. I was trying to say one final thank you before I was nowhere to be found.
I didn’t mean ALL my feelings. Just the ones that are a reflection of my sin.
Me, I also have had to face a lot of fears. today they have been faced, with one left to be done.
When I was 14 my sister Sue died on an overdose at 18 years of age. This took a long time to get over this and past this, along with many other things that occured after this beginning of Satan wanting to sift me like wheat, but as Jesus said to Peter, hey Peter Satan wishes to sift you like wheat, yet I pray for you and when you return (learn) YOU WILL STRENGTHEN THE BRETREN.
This is for you as well and as many that believe. You will learn what perfect love is and that will cast out all fear. Who can stand against when God is for you. From God’s vantage point you have been made perfect forever and holy forever in God’s sight. For God only sees through his Son Jesus Christ unto you, you, and you. God who knows no sin can now work with each believer personally, teaching them how to walk in the Spirit continuously, knowing no fear. Facing reality for reality. For there is nothing I can do about my Sister, my dad, my brother, my mother for they all have past on.
I am no longer hurt over it. Because today I have welcomed them all to their new location and I am at rest here. Then there are those that have done me wrong, okay I finaly realized that is on them. Then there are those that I have done wrong. So I searched out forgiveness from those that I could find and asked those for it. Not all forgave and no one had to forgive, but I had to be free from the wrongs I had done to others. So today I am free with one last thing to settle, and that is on its way.
You see we are already forgiven by god period. So this is why I went to seek forgiveness from those I hurt. Since God had already forgiven me before I was ever born. The holy Spirit put it on my heart. Today I am glad I listened. Sister you do whatever it is on your heart. It might hurt like peeling an onion, yet when you reach the center it is so sweet and freeing Love Howard
understood, no waves here, you are loved
Howard
I wanted to show my appreciation for what your writing does for me, so I nominated you for The Versatile Blogger Award:
http://dreamsofdunamis.wordpress.com/2012/04/24/the-versatile-blogger-award/
Blessings,
C. Dunamis
I appreciate that some of you have connected here with some real encouragement for each other. I’ve let this go on much longer that seems appropriate for this blog because I was hopeful that at some point you would take this connection to another venue. This is not a chat room, it is a blog and comments on that blog that people can read. Please don’t take this as a rebuke. It isn’t. It’s just an appeal to take the ongoing dialog to a different venue, especially when it no longer has to do with the blog itself. There are many ways for the folks that are involved in a conversation here to take it to a chat room or email loop that allows you to communicate with each other. I hope you receive this in the spirit it was intended. I would be very grateful…
No problem Wayne. I was trying to say one final thank you before I was nowhere to be found.
I wanted to show my appreciation for what your writing does for me, so I nominated you for The Versatile Blogger Award:
http://dreamsofdunamis.wordpress.com/2012/04/24/the-versatile-blogger-award/
Blessings,
C. Dunamis
Thanks Wayne, no problem i understand
Howard
Thanks Wayne, no problem i understand
Howard