Wayne Jacobsen

The Fruitfulness of Body Life

I just got back from a weekend in the Quad Cities of Iowa as the fall foliage was just beginning to burst out. Since we don’t have fall here in southern California I especially enjoyed the show and the cool, crisp air. Even more amazing was what God allowed us to share in those few days together. A group of believers there have been sharing life together in their homes for a couple of years and invited me to spend the weekend with them. Though I’d never met any of them before I felt like family instantly.

Father had led us on similar paths and it was great to share the lessons of the journey together as we got to know each other. And then God sent some other folks to join us. It started out with a neighbor from a home nearby who came to check out what was going on. Though his family had been deeply involved in a local congregation, they had been having second thoughts about that. God had been opening their hearts with a greater hunger to find a more enduring life in him. He was full of questions. The next day he came back and brought eight other friends with him. They had all been struggling with the same issues. The next day they brought even more.

We got to talk in some depth about this amazing life in Christ and how our institutions can so easily distract our eyes from the simplicity and freedom of knowing him and burden us down with activities, obligations and guilt. In just a few days it was amazing to see how much freedom Jesus worked in them and how visible it was in the countenance, voices and the way they related to each other. I have no idea what they’ll end up doing, but I think they see the way a bit more clearly and will be freer to sense Jesus’ voice and follow him however he will lead them.

On the last night one of the brothers from the initial group who had invited me told me he had been focused on the wrong thing. “I have been trying to sell house church, but not any more.” Somehow the weekend had freshly ignited his heart for Jesus and the desire to help others follow him, not get caught up in another system to add to all the other systems people have created. When I got home, I found this note from another brother who is part of that community:

Wow, Wayne! God has really blown me away over the last few days. I feel like I am in the hands of a loving Father who has bigger and better ideas for me than I ever even dreamed for myself. I am standing in awe of how he worked this weekend. Thanks you for helping me see that no matter the situation, I can crawl up into Daddy’s lap and that it is the safest place in the world to be.

I was really taken by what was said in the fellowship about what Jesus is. Jesus does not just have mercy for me, but he is mercy. He does not just have love for me, but he is love. He does not just give me righteousness, but instead is righteousness. He does not just give me life, but instead he is life. I no longer need to ask for these gifts, because he is the gift. All I need to do is turn to and accept him as my all in all. What an incredible concept! This is a huge shift in my paradigm.

I know that you feel that the main reason you were here in the Quad Cities was because of the group that are getting ready to break free from institutionalism. I would not disagree with that, but I know how much the Father has blessed the rest of us through you. I am so grateful that you felt the leading from Father to come and share what I believe to be on his heart for us. Wayne, this fruit will last. This fruit will multiply. You did not just bring us gifts from the Father. Instead, you were the gift.

It’s easy for people on at times like this to get mixed up between what I am doing there and what Father is doing while I’m there, but what greater fruit could we ever expect from our life together as his children? If it draws our hearts to him, encourages us to walk in greater freedom and joy, and opens our lives to help others on this incredible journey, then it is body life indeed!

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Where Transformation Ensues: Hearts Not Structures

A theme seems to be developing in my life over the past few days. First Alex posed a question on one of my previous blogs, Meeting Together. It is a significant question for anyone struggling through how we live out the life of the church today.

I feel so torn because my friends that are leaders of “nondenominational churches” agree very much with the abomination of the denominations, yet things like this are looked at as attacking their ministry as well. For me it is easy to say that, I give up my ministry and I just seek Jesus each day… but my heart goes out to these servants of the Lord who have faithfully served as pastors, etc. While I agree that we should have His church, His way part of me still sees so much good coming from the faithful teaching of the Word by some of these fellowships. Shall we call them all bad? What advice would you give to the young pastor of a Calvary Chapel who is faithfully teaching the word of God to many people each week and lives are really being changed despite the leaven in the church and the disconnectedness?

Then I got an email from Australia this morning after reading my blog on That Lot in Fairlee:

My husband is the pastor of our church in an Australian city. We don’t fit the muld though!! We attract large numbers of disabled, mentally instable, physically wrecked substance abuse ‘parishoners’. We have a core group of about 30 relationally oriented wonderful believers. So yes, we’re impacting our local area with the gospel but we’re not well enough resourced to cope with what we have on our plate. We have a heart to be effective as a church rather than successful. Can you help me to understand how we can make the transition?

Finally I spent some time on the phone today with a staff pastor at an outwardly successful congregation who is beginning to recognize a greater reality in Christ than he has experienced. Concerned about where his passion might take him, he wanted to ask me some questions about how this journey might affect his future and whether God can use the pastor/congregational model so prevalent today.

While I was talking to this brother we hit upon something that I think addresses the other two as well. First, let me say that nothing on this website refers to the abomination of denominations, or that those in pastoral roles are bad. That’s not language I use or encourage. We are caught in an interesting time. I’m convinced that the pastor/congregational/denominational structures we’ve inherited after 2000 years of Christian history are simply at odds with the priorities of the kingdom as Jesus lived it. Many people are starting to see that and hunger for a greater reality than these environments can offer no matter how hard they try.

Our structures seem to propagate religion more easily than the equip people for relationship and in time institutional priorities seem to trump relational ones. Does that mean they are valueless? Should we all leave them or close them all down? Is everyone in them working against the purpose of God in the earth? No! No! And no! It is one thing to recognize the weaknesses of a system and another to judge those involved in them as evil, or not recognize how God still works through our flawed attempts. He’s a pretty gracious God. I got much of my knowledge of Scripture and hunger to know God through those kinds of structures. They just couldn’t fill the hunger they gave me. We can be active in those structures and miss what true life in Christ and in his family is all about because maintaining the machinery exhausts our resources and distracts our passions.

What I hear in all of these contacts this week is an underlying concern: Do we have to figure out congregational life and do it the right way to live deeply in Jesus today? No! No! And no! In fact our preoccupation with the structures, whether we’re embracing them or reacting to them still keeps our eye on the wrong place. The transitions God wants to make in us are not primarily institutional. They are in the heart. As we embrace what he is doing in us how we need to respond on the outside will be clearer.

In the phone call earlier today I sensed that this staff pastor, like so many of us, was trying to sort out so many things that he couldn’t even see yet. Somehow he had become convinced that his life in Jesus would suffer until he got the structural issues figured out. It became obvious to us both how backwards that way of thinking is. Jesus is not waiting for us to get all the structures right.

Every bit of his life is available to you today in your relationship with him. Right now! Right where you are he wants you to know his reality and his work in you. If your mind is constantly trying to answer all the questions about your unknown future you will miss his work in you today. He does not live in your illusions, dreams or fears of the future. He lives in you. Embrace him today. Yield to him. Listen to him. Follow him without ‘taking any thought about tomorrow’ and he’ll be able to do some amazing things in you. Don’t think it awaits the perfect environment. Your submitted heart to him is all the environment he needs and whatever transition he wants to take you through in your activities or structures will rise out of the reality of that relationship. We get the cart before the horse when we’re more focused on our structures than we are on our King and Priest and Friend.

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The Cross Where Illusions Die

A good friend sent me this quote today. Probably everyone in the world has seen it but me, but I’ve really feasted on it today. I’m going to resist the temptation to comment on what it means to me and perhaps others of you who find it touching will comment on what it means to you first…

“We would rather be ruined than changed.
We would rather die in our dread than climb the cross of the moment and let our illusions die.”

W. H. Auden

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Treasuring Relationships

At this moment I’m traveling through the Northwest and having an incredible time with a wide variety of folks. The theme of this trip seems to be the value of relationships, in God’s heart for us and hopefully in our hearts for others. Shortly before I left we spent a weekend with some of our oldest and dearest friends. When they left Sunday afternoon, Sara and I reflected on what a treasure that relationship has been over the years. On Thursday morning I got up at 3:30 a.m. to get to Portland 8 hours before I needed to arrive. Why? There’s a brother and sister in Portland that I’ve dearly come to love over the years. We have been together perhaps 4 days total in the six years we’ve known about each other. We just wanted to spend some time together and I came away so encouraged and my view of God broadened by what God is doing in them.

I spent most of my weekend with a traditional fellowship looking to be more relational in their life together. I think it became clear to us all how low a priority building friendships can often become. Even when we do activities or have meetings together, those things can become more important than the friendships that bring such rich treasure to our lives. They can even become a barrier to real relationships instead of a tool to help build them. People can serve together and miss the incredible joy that comes from sharing the journey of Christlikeness together. Unless relationships are a priority, everything else will swallow up our time and energy.

While I was there, two people I’ve never met before traveled an hours journey to spend a few hours with me. A week earlier they had never heard of me until one of them read an article I’d written. They went to my website and saw I was going to be in Salem. They just wanted to meet me. We had an incredible time talking for three hours. One of them even volunteered to drive me to Washington so we could have some more time together. I know I have met some new friends.

Last night I was with a group in Washington where one lady drives 90 minutes one-way to join with folks who want to share the journey together. This is why I think obligation is such a cheap substitute for building relationships. If people don’t desire to be together enough to voluntarily make sacrifices for it, the relationships won’t grow anyway.

One more thing. I spoke with a friend recently with whom I’d shared home group life until I moved away some years ago. They used to have lots of friends and how they’ve lost touch with everyone. We talked about how much work time he’d invested in friendships in the last few years and he admitted it was little. Work, commuting and home responsibilities crowded out the time they used to devote to building friendships. Having Jesus-centered friendship is an investment. If we don’t take time to build relationships we’ll find ourselves alone. That’s no way to live. We serve a relational God and I am convinced that almost everything Jesus does he does through relationships, not programs, models or works. Who is God putting on your heart today? Whether they be believer or unbeliever, invest some time cultivating a relationship with them and see where it goes. You’ll be amazed at what God will do. I find for every 20 or 30 relationships I give myself to, maybe 2 or 3 of those become great friends over time. If you’re not casting the net out there, the fish aren’t going to jump in it by themselves.

Do you remember on 9/11 all those phone calls from workaholic stock traders that were trapped in the World Trade Center? Their last thoughts and words reached out in gut-wrenching agony to affirm their love for spouses, children and parents. No one dies wishing they had worked more or seen more football games. When all is said and done the closest we’ll touch eternal treasure in this world other than God’s presence are the relationships we share with others. Make time for that however God leads you. They don’t just happen!

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A Soft Place to Fall

When the nurses at the hospital where my dad had his recent open-heart surgery first began to get him out of bed and get him to start walking they told Mom and I not to try and help or to worry about his safety. They said that if my dad stumbled or slipped they were trained to fall underneath him so that he would land on them instead of the hard floor to lesson the risk of injury.

Dad never stumbled so we never saw them do it, but every time I saw them walking him in the hallway, I could see how ready they were to ‘take the fall’ for him. And I can’t imagine a greater description of ministry than the picture of getting beneath someone as they are going down so that you minimize their risk of injury at our own expense.

Could that be why sinners found themselves attracted to Jesus? He was a soft place for people hurting people to fall. And as he is, so are we in the world…

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Being Real In the Body Of Christ

Nancy from Texas posted something in the Lifestream Community the other day that summed up so well what it means to be real in the body of Christ. Nancy said she pulled together various things she had heard from some of my teachings on some of the CD series that she has been listening to. I think she captured it well and wanted to replay it here:

In a combination of her words and mine, this is what it means to Nancy to be real with other people:

It’s OK to question what I need to question, ask what I need to ask and struggle where I struggle. I’ve learned that I am not rewarded for pretending to be better than I am, but that experiencing the life of God means that I am loved through the ups and downs, hurts and joys, and doubts as well as triumphs. Instead of exploiting people’s shame or need for approval to try and make them better Christians, I encourage people to go to God for healing and restoration from shame so they can experience for themselves the love of God. Instead of loading others up with a list of `shoulds’, I tell people that God is working by “the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus” and his greatest desire is to communicate with them. I talk about learning “how to” listen to God and follow what he puts on their heart even if that means they make a mistake doing so. Instead of trying to change people I urge them to get to know Christ as life because it’s so much fun (and far more effective) watching him change them. Instead of manipulating others to do what I think would benefit me and my definition of God’s will for them. I’m learning how to trust Christ as my resource for what I need.

I find the simple sharing of His life together with other believers is how I am learning to “be” the church instead of just attending church.

Being real doesn’t give permission for people to be rude or obnoxious, to make false accusations or to victimize others with their hurt and pain. But it is the freedom to express themselves as honestly as they can, to ask questions and to follow God’s working in their heart. Anyone who has found an environment where this kind of freedom is encouraged—where they are not judged or rejected for being honest, struggling or making mistakes has found a true piece of the body of Christ. Only in an environment of this kind of freedom do we grow.

And if that’s the kind of relationships we want then it will also be the kind of friendship we extend to others.

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Where Best Transformed: Sunday Services or Daily Life?

One of my favorite people in the world (and I have many of these) is a man who calls himself Clothman. He and a group of folks up in Missoula, Montana have been through an interesting transition from a more traditional congregational life to one that is more relationally based. For Glenn that meant transitioning out of vocational ministry as the pastor to secular employment as a school bus driver among other things.

Under the his penname, Clothman, Glenn writes a weekly newspaper column for local papers which provides a different and witty look at how God works in us and the world. Here’s a clip from his latest column, which offers a great reality-check. If you don’t get what he’s saying here, then you have an amazing discovery still ahead for you.

My re-entry into the so-called “secular” workplace has resulted in me growing deeper in my relationship with God and others than I ever did as a full-time pastor. I now so appreciate Eugene Peterson’s comment that one of his main objectives in life has been “saying and showing – insisting! – that the world of work is the primary context for spirituality – for experiencing God, for obeying Jesus, for receiving the Spirit.” He is absolutely right.

“Clothman, which does God use to shape us more: work or worship services?”

If someone would have asked me that a couple of years ago I would have answered: “Are you a couple of Cokes short of a six pack? Worship services, of course.” What else could I say, both mine and our church’s, primary resources were devoted to helping people grow spiritually via our weekly worship services.

What a transformation for me to now state that “secular” work has resulted in more “sacred” life change in my life than worship services.

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Living Deeply in Christ

I thought some of you might appreciate a look over my shoulder at a recent email exchange.

I have been reading and appreciating your writings on the Lifestream website for about a month now. Recently, I read your Journey notes of 2002 and am beginning to see that I am an attempting manipulator of God and people, even my own family. No wonder I get frustrated, anxious and impatient when God and others do not do what I want them to do. I’m only beginning to see this, but want the Lord to deal with this in my life, for the sake of freedom.

What a great thing to see. Painful… but great! I have been there too, Bro, with all the frustration, anxiety and impatience you speak of. But you can take great hope in this: Father always reveals what Father is ready to heal. You will not believe the freedom that will come as he teaches you how to trust him more and more. When you really come to know that everything is in his hands and that our control is only an illusion that torments ourselves and others, then you’ll find joy as he always meant us to have.

Tonight I read the following from one of your Journey Notes of 2003, “There is no greater freedom than learning to live deeply in the life of Jesus and watch his Father’s plans and purpose unfold in our live.” Will you help me to understand what it means and how to “live deeply in the life of Jesus”? >From your perspective, how does one know if he is doing that or just hoping that he is. The ministry I have been working with for many years teaches how one can be filled with the Holy Spirit by faith. I have taught others myself, but wonder if I really am, or am living deeply in the life of Jesus, or really trusting Him in a way that He wants me to.

Even as I write this I think I am getting deeper. I know the scriptures that speak of God’s love for us in Christ, but how do I really grasp, beyond the shadow of a doubt that God really loves me, really will shepherd me and meet all my needs.

I think I meant that statement more as a reality rather than an objective. One who lives deeply in the life of Jesus knows him, listens to him, follows him in the day to day unfolding of life. How does someone know? I don’t see how it can be a reality and people not know it. Are you growing in knowing Jesus, listening to him and following his agenda for your life instead of trying to get you to follow yours? If so, that will be pretty obvious to you. If it isn’t, then you might want to slow down a bit and let him show you.

As you say I think it has a lot to do with finding security in his love, which is what the cross was all about. Unfortunately the power of the cross has rarely been preached in Western Christianity in the last 40 years. We have been taught that to make us free a wrathful God had to satisfy his need for justice in the torture of his Son. He suffered our punishment so we can go free. How does that view of the cross accomplish what Paul stated in Romans 8, that the cross forever convinces us of Father’s affection for us and we can rest in that reality no matter what circumstance we face? It doesn’t.

A closer examination of the New Testament will show us that the cross wasn’t about God venting his wrath on an innocent victim, but Father and Son working together to consume sin in themselves so that we might be cured of it, not just forgiven of it. I deal with this briefly in the third section of He Loves Me and more extensively in the CD series, The Power of the Cross.

Seeing the cross as God’s sees it is a critical part of our learning to live the life of Jesus because it focuses more on what he wants to do in me today, than what I can do for him. We’ve been steeped in a theology of religious obligation, which will not produce relationship. So instead of doing a bunch of religious things to ‘build the relationship’ we must instead learn to respond to him as he builds it. Even trying to build it ‘by faith’ focuses on our actions instead of his. Faith is nothing more than the growing trust we have in him that results from the growing relationship we experience in him. Ask him to show you himself. To help you listen again to his still small voice and know him as a real presence and not just an abstract concept. Follow him and the growing convictions he puts on your heart. The reason many people miss out is that they are either hung up on religious methods, or they want to make it more difficult than it really is. Living deeply in the life of Jesus is not that complicated when we get our agenda out of the way and learn to rely on the security of God’s love for us.

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A Voice from ‘Another Planet’

I just returned from an awesome weekend in Sacramento. While I went there to primarily spend time with one group of believers that are wearied of the status quo and seeking a more authentic faith and community, I also got to spend time with people from at least three other groupings of believers that are going through some wonderful transitions as well. I talked with four current or previous ‘pastors.’ I wish those who are ready to write people off who are still trapped in the system, could have been with me to meet people who are taking huge risks personally and corporately to follow what Father has put on their hearts.

One of the themes that kept coming up in personal conversations is how complicated we make the life of Jesus in our day. Jesus gave us something so simple, and we humans build all kinds of structures around it that rob us of its simplicity and power. Instead of freeing people to be dependent on Jesus and trust him to bring it all together our fear that he won’t makes us create complicated systems that weary people in endless strategizing, heated debates and time-consuming maintenance. Part of that has to do with building ministries today by making people dependent on certain models or personalities. While it may make good business sense, it makes lousy kingdom sense. And unfortunately many of those ‘outside-the-box’ continue with the same methods in smaller boxes and the same fragmentation.

I returned home to an email from a brother on the coast in northern France. He said some hard things about Christianity in America, but I do think he hits the nail on the head. I also think what he says is true not only of American Christianity but also other ‘Christianized’ cultures where I’ve traveled. It seems wherever Christianity has dominated the landscape we can get easily lost in the things that divide us rather than in the life of Jesus itself. I found his perspective from a different culture to be incredibly refreshing even though the mirror he holds up for us may make us cringe. In his words, I heard the voice of Jesus and commend them to you:

Here there is a handful of us meeting in our homes. Our assembly is small but the Lord is blessing us. We gather on the ground of Christ and on no other and let me tell you: what a safe ground that is! I think there is too much of “Christianity” and “churchianity” in your country, too many organizations, too much of “organized Christianity”, too many religious systems; the Christians in general seem quite confused about it all. It’s hard to believe what actually goes on.

You may know that France is extremely poor spiritually. 90% of the population is Catholic, 20% of these actually go to mass on Sundays. The second religion here is Islam. Third comes the Protestant churches, most of them are spiritually dead. Most of the pastors are not even born from above. Then comes the Evangelicals (a few thousands), most of them are federated into some religious institutions and have lost touch with spiritual reality. I would imagine that in France (60 million people) there are only a few hundreds truly seeking believers. France is one of the poorest country in the world spiritually, and one of the hardest missionary fields. All the missionaries I have known did not last long here, simply because the French will only listen to the French…

I wanted to say that here we have no time to waste about arguing and bickering, the situation is too grave. I feel that somehow there is something that most American believers miss, and that is the simplicity of being in Christ. Christians makes all sort of things their ground of gathering, but even the (Scriptures) is not the ground of gathering—only Christ is! And this simplifies things to the extreme, it puts man aside, it puts Christ first in all things, and second it puts my brothers and sisters before me. As a fellowship we are trying to maintain the simplicity of the truths as they are found in the Word. We don’t agree on everything – we don’t have to – the main thing is to make sure that Christ has His full place in our individual lives and in us collectively.

I hope that you will not misunderstand me. I am not criticizing what you do, in fact I enjoyed most of I have read on your site, and I do not want to sound too critical about my American brothers and sisters. What I mean is that when I observe what goes on in America spiritually and what goes on here, it would seem that we are on a different planet!

That sounds like a planet I’d like to be on. Living deeply in Christ is not rocket science. We miss it so easily, not because it is too difficult but because it is far simpler than we’ve been allowed to believe. Authentic Christianity in our day is also more rare than we know. If we truly lived like the counter-culture Jesus demonstrated we wouldn’t have time for bickering, wouldn’t have the heart to maintain religious machinery and wouldn’t fragment into small camps of Christians that can only walk with those who see everything the same way we do.

Let Jesus simplify your perception of him and your journey in him. And while you’re at it, pray for the brothers and sisters in France. I’ve been there. His observations fit what I tasted of as well. So many people are lost in the emptiness of religion, and that includes many who claim to be Evangelicals, so that the voice of Jesus is not often heard in the culture. But we probably have no idea how many groups of people just like he walks with are hidden all over the world.

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“The Shepherding Movement” Is a Timely Read

I don’t hear much about this anymore, but it was a catalyst for a lot of contention and division in the Charismatic Renewal back in the mid 1970s and into the 1980s. Charles Simpson, Bob Mumford, Derek Prince, Don Basham and Ern Baxter were gifted teachers and authors who found some common ground in their spiritual passion, teaching, and alternative views of church life
Unfortunately it didn’t turn out to be as helpful for everyone involved as they had hoped and it proved divisive among the Charismatic renewal as a whole. Someone sent me a new book last week entitled The Shepherding Movement , by David Moore.

I have to tell you, I wasn’t all that excited about reading it since it seems like an old story that doesn’t need to be resurrected. Though I wasn’t involved in the movement, I did help pick up some broken lives scattered in its wake. At the time I was deeply saddened by how those brothers had squandered their teaching gifts to create an institution that for many proved manipulative and destructive. But things aren’t always all that they seem. In recent years I have also met a number of people whose lives were deeply grounded in Jesus’ life through that movement. They talk with regret about the hurt it caused, but are still grateful for how God had used that season in their lives to equip them to live deeply in God’s life.

So in the past few days I read the book. I was just going to glance through it briefly and add it to the large stack of books that others want me to read. But somehow I got hooked by the story and drawn to the lessons the other was making. Moore’s book claims to be an academic treatise of the movement and he does a masterful job at maintaining an even-hand throughout. As he tells the story from extensive research and interviews with the key players a different story emerges than the one I’d assumed. He wrote about people who were passionate to find a more relevant way of living as the church and how they stumbled upon certain relationships and models they thought were Godly. As they played out, however, their desire to create a new structure and encase God’s work in it created a monster that even all of those who helped create it eventually came to lament.
Part way through this book I recognized that this was not just an historical curiosity; it was also a magnifying glass probing the motives of my own heart.

This is a timely book for anyone who hungers to find new models of church life to make it more relevant to today’s culture. This path has been trod before. The very idea that we can contain God’s working in a movement controlled by people, however gifted or wise, must be blown apart. To think that we can construct replicatable models, no matter how much people may cry for them, and the exaltation of any hierarchical structure to maintain it, invites us to recreate that same monster. This book shows all too well how the best people, driven by the best ambitions can end up doing things that not only distracts people from God’s life, but also devours them in the process. If we don’t learn the lessons of those who have gone before us, we are doomed to repeat their mistakes.

When we think our structures are more biblical, more Godly more right than other structures, we’ve already lost that battle. Jesus didn’t place the life of his church into any particular system, but into the hands of the Holy Spirit. That is best maintained by people from all over the world who will listen and follow Jesus in concert with others who are also doing so as well. He will knit us together through the relationships that he desires so that he can prepare a spotless bride for his pleasure.

I’m not advocating that we remain passive in this process, but that we take great care at how we labor. Let’s not invest our efforts in movements or models that will come to nothing but in people who will demonstrate his life in the world. We can equip people to view the church as Jesus viewed her. We can talk about scriptural priorities for discovering that life together and help people see the myriad of ways God gifts his people with authentic community. We can teach people how to walk together and listen to God together so that he can produce among them the expression of church life that will most encourage their journeys and reach people in their communities. But we dare not give ourselves to deceiving idea that we can encase that in a system or entrust it to any self-appointed group of leaders as a substitute for growing dependence on the Head of the Church himself.

This book is a must-read for anyone concerned about church renewal in our day. But don’t read it looking for mistakes others are making. This story will probe your own heart to ensure that you are working alongside Jesus as he builds his church rather than asking him to work alongside you as you try to build your own version of it.

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