Comments on: Dealing With Criticism http://lifestream.org/blog/2008/08/20/dealing-with-criticism/ Thu, 11 Mar 2010 21:38:35 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Wayne http://lifestream.org/blog/2008/08/20/dealing-with-criticism/comment-page-1/#comment-25696 Wayne Wed, 24 Sep 2008 00:25:35 +0000 http://lifestream.org/blog/?p=589#comment-25696 Murray, Thanks for your gracious words. Not sure I agree with your point, however. There are times and places to have conversations that are helpful and there are times and places to have debates that open people's eyes. Jesus rarely confronts the Pharisees. They are usually confronting him and he responds however the moment demands. What I loved about Bart's letter was him realizing the difference between a conversation that would give life and a set-up debate that would only bash his views without taking them seriously. He saw no need to participate in the game. I think we need to be sensitive to his leading about when to have the discussion and when it is just worthless to do so. Jesus lived with that grace. And there are times when he didn't defend himself, knowing it would produce the opposite of what Father intended... Blessings, Wayne Murray,

Thanks for your gracious words. Not sure I agree with your point, however. There are times and places to have conversations that are helpful and there are times and places to have debates that open people’s eyes. Jesus rarely confronts the Pharisees. They are usually confronting him and he responds however the moment demands.

What I loved about Bart’s letter was him realizing the difference between a conversation that would give life and a set-up debate that would only bash his views without taking them seriously. He saw no need to participate in the game. I think we need to be sensitive to his leading about when to have the discussion and when it is just worthless to do so.

Jesus lived with that grace. And there are times when he didn’t defend himself, knowing it would produce the opposite of what Father intended…

Blessings,

Wayne

]]> By: Murray http://lifestream.org/blog/2008/08/20/dealing-with-criticism/comment-page-1/#comment-25678 Murray Fri, 19 Sep 2008 14:48:11 +0000 http://lifestream.org/blog/?p=589#comment-25678 While I have never read any of Karl Barth's letters (something I will soon remedy) I find myself agreeing with what I percieve as the idea or premise behind the brief comments stated here. However, I also believe that the only way to open dialogue and break down barrieres is to engage in conversation and debate with those who would seek to "cling to their orthodoxy at all costs" and "act as prosecuting attorneys." Isn't this what Jesus did? Didn't he go to the home of the tax collectors, sadducees, and pharisees? Didn't he confront the ones who would stone the woman taken in adultry? Didn't he meet with those that he knew in advance were out to trap him with his own words and were not interested at all in knowing the truth. And didn't the truth either open their eyes or shut their mouths? My favorite statement in your book, So You Don't Want To Go To Church Anymore , occurs twice in your book and for me, sums up what our response should be in like situations. We see John make it in the beginning of the book, "You really have no idea what Jesus WAS like, do you?" Jake makes the same comment in the end of the book with one word change, "You really have no idea what Jesus IS like, do you?" We should welcome opposition, approach it willingly as John and Jake (and Jesus) did when they approached the hostile crowd, and then watch what God will do. While I have never read any of Karl Barth’s letters (something I will soon remedy) I find myself agreeing with what I percieve as the idea or premise behind the brief comments stated here. However, I also believe that the only way to open dialogue and break down barrieres is to engage in conversation and debate with those who would seek to “cling to their orthodoxy at all costs” and “act as prosecuting attorneys.” Isn’t this what Jesus did? Didn’t he go to the home of the tax collectors, sadducees, and pharisees? Didn’t he confront the ones who would stone the woman taken in adultry? Didn’t he meet with those that he knew in advance were out to trap him with his own words and were not interested at all in knowing the truth. And didn’t the truth either open their eyes or shut their mouths?

My favorite statement in your book, So You Don’t Want To Go To Church Anymore , occurs twice in your book and for me, sums up what our response should be in like situations. We see John make it in the beginning of the book, “You really have no idea what Jesus WAS like, do you?” Jake makes the same comment in the end of the book with one word change, “You really have no idea what Jesus IS like, do you?” We should welcome opposition, approach it willingly as John and Jake (and Jesus) did when they approached the hostile crowd, and then watch what God will do.

]]> By: Lysle Myers http://lifestream.org/blog/2008/08/20/dealing-with-criticism/comment-page-1/#comment-25612 Lysle Myers Fri, 29 Aug 2008 17:01:57 +0000 http://lifestream.org/blog/?p=589#comment-25612 It's sad that the only way some folk can feel good about themselves and what they believe is to knock anything cuts across that, often without allowing the Holy Spirit teach them anything from that which they criticize. I guess it shows how crippled they are in certain areas. We can trust Father to get throught to them and heal them in His perfect timing, but they do do a lot of damage in the meantime to those who rely on them for guidance. The Shack story has blessed me beyond belief, I recently finished reading it for the fourth time and got new wisdom's again. I've no dought that when and if I read it again I will be taught something new by the Holy Spirit It’s sad that the only way some folk can feel good about themselves and what they believe is to knock anything cuts across that, often without allowing the Holy Spirit teach them anything from that which they criticize. I guess it shows how crippled they are in certain areas. We can trust Father to get throught to them and heal them in His perfect timing, but they do do a lot of damage in the meantime to those who rely on them for guidance.

The Shack story has blessed me beyond belief, I recently finished reading it for the fourth time and got new wisdom’s again. I’ve no dought that when and if I read it again I will be taught something new by the Holy Spirit

]]> By: Pam http://lifestream.org/blog/2008/08/20/dealing-with-criticism/comment-page-1/#comment-25592 Pam Mon, 25 Aug 2008 03:13:29 +0000 http://lifestream.org/blog/?p=589#comment-25592 Robin, I wrote that several weeks ago. The funny thing is as I read it again. I remember that the "I don't have truth by the tail" bit came from Professor Phil Holtrop and Christ and Culture class at Calvin College in the early eighties. Reading some Barth was a part of that course. I don't remember a lot of specifics about Barth's theology, but I remember Prof. Holtrop repeating that line, "None of us have truth by the tail," time and again, urging us to be gracious, keep thinking, and really setting our feet on a journey. I am so grateful for the many people Papa has put in my life. I'd forgotten about Dr. Holtrop. Robin, I wrote that several weeks ago. The funny thing is as I read it again. I remember that the “I don’t have truth by the tail” bit came from Professor Phil Holtrop and Christ and Culture class at Calvin College in the early eighties. Reading some Barth was a part of that course. I don’t remember a lot of specifics about Barth’s theology, but I remember Prof. Holtrop repeating that line, “None of us have truth by the tail,” time and again, urging us to be gracious, keep thinking, and really setting our feet on a journey. I am so grateful for the many people Papa has put in my life. I’d forgotten about Dr. Holtrop.

]]> By: Chris Pack http://lifestream.org/blog/2008/08/20/dealing-with-criticism/comment-page-1/#comment-25583 Chris Pack Fri, 22 Aug 2008 22:33:35 +0000 http://lifestream.org/blog/?p=589#comment-25583 Wayne and Brad, I went to Wikipedia and read about Barth after listening to your show. There are some quotes out there, one of which is as follows: "Jesus does not give recipes that show the way to God as other teachers of religion do. He is Himself the way." Man, if that doesn't say what you guys are talking about most of the time, then I don't know what does. Blessings! Chris Wayne and Brad,

I went to Wikipedia and read about Barth after listening to your show. There are some quotes out there, one of which is as follows:

“Jesus does not give recipes that show the way to God as other teachers of religion do. He is Himself the way.”

Man, if that doesn’t say what you guys are talking about most of the time, then I don’t know what does.

Blessings!

Chris

]]> By: Dave A http://lifestream.org/blog/2008/08/20/dealing-with-criticism/comment-page-1/#comment-25582 Dave A Fri, 22 Aug 2008 20:18:53 +0000 http://lifestream.org/blog/?p=589#comment-25582 The freedom to walk away from those whose only desire is to divide and conquer. I love it. THanks. The freedom to walk away from those whose only desire is to divide and conquer. I love it. THanks.

]]> By: Robin Sampson http://lifestream.org/blog/2008/08/20/dealing-with-criticism/comment-page-1/#comment-25581 Robin Sampson Fri, 22 Aug 2008 16:19:47 +0000 http://lifestream.org/blog/?p=589#comment-25581 Thanks for posting this Wayne. Those of us promoting the Shack can feel the heat. I read this helpful comment on The Shack forum: I believe scripture to be the plumbline. I think the idea that truth is relative is a chaotic idea. I remember a colleague at a Christian school said to me “I believe what the Bible says.” Everybody in every denomination or independent church, fellowship, club whatever you want to call it says that. You can have two responses to the confusion that arises from the fact that we arrive at different conclusions from the Bible on many issues. 1. One is “I am right and everyone else is wrong because they do not know how to interpret scripture.” 2. The other response is “Though I have tried to be faithful to this scripture, I am human and broken and bound to misunderstand some things. The fact that other sincere believers disagree with me means I have to continually ask the Father by the power of the Holy Spirit to heal and inform my mind as I go back to scripture again and again. I don’t have truth by the tail” Thanks for posting this Wayne. Those of us promoting the Shack can feel the heat.

I read this helpful comment on The Shack forum:

I believe scripture to be the plumbline. I think the idea that truth is relative is a chaotic idea. I remember a colleague at a Christian school said to me “I believe what the Bible says.” Everybody in every denomination or independent church, fellowship, club whatever you want to call it says that. You can have two responses to the confusion that arises from the fact that we arrive at different conclusions from the Bible on many issues.

1. One is “I am right and everyone else is wrong because they do not know how to interpret scripture.”

2. The other response is “Though I have tried to be faithful to this scripture, I am human and broken and bound to misunderstand some things. The fact that other sincere believers disagree with me means I have to continually ask the Father by the power of the Holy Spirit to heal and inform my mind as I go back to scripture again and again. I don’t have truth by the tail”

]]> By: Toby http://lifestream.org/blog/2008/08/20/dealing-with-criticism/comment-page-1/#comment-25580 Toby Fri, 22 Aug 2008 03:07:50 +0000 http://lifestream.org/blog/?p=589#comment-25580 invited > instructed + informed It's all about a love relationship! invited > instructed + informed

It’s all about a love relationship!

]]> By: Don http://lifestream.org/blog/2008/08/20/dealing-with-criticism/comment-page-1/#comment-25579 Don Thu, 21 Aug 2008 17:37:19 +0000 http://lifestream.org/blog/?p=589#comment-25579 My reason for liking the Shack is expressed by Oswald Chambers: “It is possible to know all about doctrine and still not know Jesus. A person’s soul is in grave danger when the knowledge of doctrine surpasses Jesus, avoiding intimate touch with Him.” My reason for liking the Shack is expressed by Oswald Chambers: “It is possible to know all about doctrine and still not know Jesus. A person’s soul is in grave danger when the knowledge of doctrine surpasses Jesus, avoiding intimate touch with Him.”

]]> By: Kelly http://lifestream.org/blog/2008/08/20/dealing-with-criticism/comment-page-1/#comment-25578 Kelly Thu, 21 Aug 2008 13:21:18 +0000 http://lifestream.org/blog/?p=589#comment-25578 It's so sad that we humans are always arranging our paradigms and trying to rearrange others' paradigms to match ours so we can prove that we are "in the right." There is so much crippling fear involved for those "Pharisees!" I've stopped believing that right and wrong is the point (this was the point of Satan's temptation in the Garden); it pulls us inevitably away from relationship. If relationship is the point, then addressing every point of criticism with an answer or a proof seems counterproductive. God doesn't answer our critiques, does He? It’s so sad that we humans are always arranging our paradigms and trying to rearrange others’ paradigms to match ours so we can prove that we are “in the right.” There is so much crippling fear involved for those “Pharisees!” I’ve stopped believing that right and wrong is the point (this was the point of Satan’s temptation in the Garden); it pulls us inevitably away from relationship. If relationship is the point, then addressing every point of criticism with an answer or a proof seems counterproductive. God doesn’t answer our critiques, does He?

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